Red Sox Sign Marco Scutaro

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soxprospects

#101

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Posts: 7260

12/04/09 2:53 PM

Mike Andrews
Executive Editor
SoxProspects, LLC

I would guess no as well. If that was the case, they would have just called it a $4.5-million player option.

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amfox1

#102

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Posts: 6366

12/04/09 2:57 PM

Adam
Senior Moderator
SoxProspects Forum

Yirmiyahu wrote:
Looking at this as a 2 year/$12.5M deal, I officially approve. A bunch of things to be optimistic about:

- Scutaro's played his entire career in pitcher's parks, and has reverse home/road splits.
- His SS defense has been good for the past 3 years (5.8 UZR/150).
- He's 34, but has shown no signs of decline, as his best two years have been the last 2.
- If he loses the starting SS job to Lowrie or Iglesias, he can be a very good utility infielder.
- Is a right-handed pull hitter who hits balls in the air (40% GB rate in recent years), which should be perfect for the Monster.
- His 2009 season wasn't due to a fluky BABip.
- 2 years and $12.5 million is a very good deal for him, if you don't consider the draft pick.
- The draft pick shouldn't matter all that much, as this is a clear sign that the Sox intend on signing at least 1 more Type A (Holliday or Lackey, maybe one of the relievers too).

These are all good points, other than the defense point (IMO, he is an average defender - nothing more). I expected 2/$12, so we're not far off and it apparently took the third year option to bring him in quickly, which sets the table for next week's winter meetings to focus on Holliday and Halliday. The timing alone is a benefit, as they needed to fill this position quickly. I would also point out that he's a "young" 34, because of his not being a full-time player earlier in his career.

Would I rather have AGon for 1/2.75 and no loss of draft pick? Yes.
Would I rather have Hanley? Of course (and this signing does not prevent that).
Would I rather have no one and be looking at the Everetts of the world? No.

Overall, I'm not in love with the deal but he brings tremendous flexibility to the roster and the cost (both in terms of cash and draft picks) is not going to prevent any other moves.

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terriblehondo

#103

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Posts: 34

12/04/09 2:57 PM

Yirmiyahu wrote:

soxprospects wrote:
I also think there is some evidence that the two are not all that far apart defensively. Not everyone will agree, but I think that would be the Sox' explanation.
Could you please explain this? I know that Gonzalez has been slower due to his 2008 knee injury, and that Scutaro may have improved defensively in recent years, but what's the argument that they're "not all that far apart" ? Thanks.

This does not show them as being close. I guess it depends how much stock you put into these ratings.

"Scutaro is an above-average fielder, according to Fangraphs.com. His Ultimate Zone Rating was 0.9 at shortstop last season, just above average. Julio Lugo came in at -13.4 last season, and Alex Gonzalez was at 6.7."

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Mhueg

#104

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Posts: 185

12/04/09 3:00 PM

Matt
Staff Writer
SoxProspects.com

Gammons article on the signing, some interesting quotes from Ricciardi:

In mid-July, Scutaro's defensive metrics -- according to three teams' valuations -- were the best in the American League. Then the foot began bothering him, and the numbers were affected in August and September. "He'll be fine," former Blue Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi said. "When he's healthy, he's one of the three best defensive shortstops in the league.

"He's one of the best shortstops, period," Ricciardi said. "He's a guy that's going to be able to play at this level until he's 37 or 38. He works at it. Look, this is a great signing. He's a really smart player. He's a great base runner. He keeps improving (his on base percentage has risen from .332 to .341 to .379 the last three seasons). He grinds at-bats (he led all shortstops in pitches per at-bat). He could bat leadoff and they could let Dustin Pedoria bat third. He can do a lot of things."

Epstein is always looking for hitters who grind at-bats, and next year's team will have five of the top 18 American League hitters in pitches per at-bat in Kevin Youklis (1), David Ortiz (7), J.D. Drew (9), Scutaro (13) and Victor Martinez (18).

Last Edited By: Mhueg 12/04/09 3:02 PM. Edited 1 time.

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OCD SS

Trade Rater: Sox sign Scutaro2

#105

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12/04/09 3:09 PM

Veteran Member

Yirmiyahu wrote:
Just realized that Mike worded it as "The 2012 option is a mutual one that will pay the Venezuelan infielder $6 million if the club picks it up, and $3 million if Scutaro picks it up plus a $1.5 million buyout." Makes sense. Assuming that means there's no way to buyout the player option, the Sox are probably stuck paying $4.5 million in 2012, unless Scutaro wants to play elsewhere and/or thinks he can get more than $3 million elsewhere.

I read the option as The Sox can keep him for $6M, Scuttaro can stay at $3, and if he chooses the open market he gets a $1.5M going away present.

"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock" - Pedro, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.

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LarsinCharge

Re: Trade Rater: Sox sign Scutaro2

#106

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Posts: 418

12/04/09 3:12 PM

Zach
Managing Editor
SoxProspects.com

OCD SS wrote:
I read the option as The Sox can keep him for $6M, Scuttaro can stay at $3, and if he chooses the open market he gets a $1.5M going away present.

Correct.

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Yirmiyahu

Re: Trade Rater: Sox sign Scutaro2

#107

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12/04/09 3:16 PM

OCD SS wrote:

Yirmiyahu wrote:
Just realized that Mike worded it as "The 2012 option is a mutual one that will pay the Venezuelan infielder $6 million if the club picks it up, and $3 million if Scutaro picks it up plus a $1.5 million buyout." Makes sense. Assuming that means there's no way to buyout the player option, the Sox are probably stuck paying $4.5 million in 2012, unless Scutaro wants to play elsewhere and/or thinks he can get more than $3 million elsewhere.

I read the option as The Sox can keep him for $6M, Scuttaro can stay at $3, and if he chooses the open market he gets a $1.5M going away present.

That would be a much better situation... Anyway, it's unclear enough that it'd be nice to have some confirmation from someone in the know.

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SoxSail

Re: Trade Rater: Sox sign Scutaro2

#108

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12/04/09 3:18 PM

Yirmiyahu wrote:
ADD: Just realized that Mike worded it as "The 2012 option is a mutual one that will pay the Venezuelan infielder $6 million if the club picks it up, and $3 million if Scutaro picks it up plus a $1.5 million buyout." Makes sense. Assuming that means there's no way to buyout the player option, the Sox are probably stuck paying $4.5 million in 2012, unless Scutaro wants to play elsewhere and/or thinks he can get more than $3 million elsewhere.

Do the Sox still have to pay the buyout if they pick up the 6 million option? How about if neither option is picked up? LarsCharge, are you sure or stating an opinion?

Last Edited By: SoxSail 12/04/09 3:26 PM. Edited 1 time.

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LarsinCharge

#109

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12/04/09 3:36 PM

Zach
Managing Editor
SoxProspects.com

I am fairly certain that a buyout only applies if the player and team sever ties on the contract in question. If an option is picked up, a buyout would not apply.

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TokenWilliams

#110

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Posts: 583

12/04/09 4:15 PM

Scuts Fenway numbers since the beginning of 2008, which are his "best years":

sorry the fields don't line up, but this should do the trick for everyone. I'm being a bit lazy right now. Small Sample Size? Yes, but Fenway hasn't been a haven for him that's for sure

Player	Games	GS	AB	Runs	Hits	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	IBB	HBP	K	SB	CS	SH	SF	GDP	CI	BA	OBA	SPct

Marco Scutaro

13

12

46

4

12

1

0

1

3

0

1

4

0

1

0

.261

.314

.283

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SexyBanana

#111

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Posts: 1412

12/04/09 4:16 PM

John
Staff Writer
SoxProspects.com

I am 100% certain the buyout only applies if both options are declined. The language in the contract probably states something to the tune of "If team or player decline option, a $1.5 million buyout will be paid to the player on date of option being declined"

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Mhueg

#112

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Posts: 186

12/04/09 4:27 PM

Matt
Staff Writer
SoxProspects.com

Press conference at 4:15 for "major announcement," assumedly Marco Scutaro signing.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

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SoxSail

#113

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Posts: 388

12/04/09 4:29 PM

SexyBanana wrote:
I am 100% certain the buyout only applies if both options are declined. The language in the contract probably states something to the tune of "If team or player decline option, a $1.5 million buyout will be paid to the player on date of option being declined"

Well that's good. There is a very small chance that Scutaro picks up his option then, because he only would if he suspects that he is worth less than $1.5 million on the open market. Call the buyout the cost for a supplemental first rounder (hoping he's a type B or better in two years) and we're even. If it turns out he's good and projects to be worth more than 3 million in 2012, then the Sox might eat some of that value to keep him around on a flexible one year deal. Or if he's pretty mediocre and stays for a third year on his own terms, then he's a cheap backup at several IF positions.

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SexyBanana

#114

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Posts: 1413

12/04/09 4:37 PM

John
Staff Writer
SoxProspects.com

He will be pretty old when he hits the FA market again, not sure a team will be clamoring to give up a first rounder to sign him when he is 37 or 38

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Yirmiyahu

#115

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Posts: 667

12/04/09 4:58 PM

TokenWilliams wrote:
Scuts Fenway numbers since the beginning of 2008, which are his "best years":

sorry the fields don't line up, but this should do the trick for everyone. I'm being a bit lazy right now. Small Sample Size? Yes, but Fenway hasn't been a haven for him that's for sure

So, in 2008-2009, he had a .596 OPS at Fenway (51 PA's), despite putting up a .746 OPS overall in that time span?

Hm. Well, from 2002-2006, he had a .853 OPS at Fenway (51 PA's), despite putting up a .707 OPS overall in that time span.

Small sample sizes.

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BB HBP HURT

#116

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12/04/09 5:09 PM

Mhueg wrote:
Press conference at 4:15 for "major announcement," assumedly Marco Scutaro signing.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

I laughed when i saw that scrolling on NESN, they honestly believe knowledgeable fans consider Scutaro a MAJOR announcement.

"If a frog had wings, he would'nt bump his booty" Former Red Sox Manager Jimy Williams

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Nolson20

#117

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Posts: 350

12/04/09 5:21 PM

BB HBP HURT wrote:

Mhueg wrote:
Press conference at 4:15 for "major announcement," assumedly Marco Scutaro signing.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

I laughed when i saw that scrolling on NESN, they honestly believe knowledgeable fans consider Scutaro a MAJOR announcement.

Granted the major announcement is a stretch, most free agents get press conferences so this shouldn't be to big of a surprise.

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BB HBP HURT

#118

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Posts: 112

12/04/09 5:27 PM

Nolson20 wrote:

BB HBP HURT wrote:

Mhueg wrote:
Press conference at 4:15 for "major announcement," assumedly Marco Scutaro signing.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

I laughed when i saw that scrolling on NESN, they honestly believe knowledgeable fans consider Scutaro a MAJOR announcement.

Granted the major announcement is a stretch, most free agents get press conferences so this shouldn't be to big of a surprise.

I knew there would be a PC, but the word MAJOR should not be used 4 Scutaro, when I hear major I'm thinking Holliday/Bay or a trade 4 Halladay, Agon, King Felix, Hanley etc.

"If a frog had wings, he would'nt bump his booty" Former Red Sox Manager Jimy Williams

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FenwayTheHardWay

#119

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Posts: 1697

12/04/09 5:28 PM

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Signing your starting shortstop for next year qualifies as major for me.

"Jonathan Papelbon, not wasting any time, going to his bread and butter there, and that's the cheese."- Buck Martinez

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Nolson20

#120

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Posts: 351

12/04/09 5:32 PM

BB HBP HURT wrote:
I knew there would be a PC, but the word MAJOR should not be used 4 Scutaro, when I hear major I'm thinking Holliday/Bay or a trade 4 Halladay, Agon, King Felix, Hanley etc.

I don't disagree with you from a name standpoint but like Fenway said signing a starter for next years team is major.

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Red Sox Sign Marco Scutaro