Red Sox Sign Marco Scutaro

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Yirmiyahu		#81	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 659 12/04/09 12:09 PM	Looking at this as a 2 year/$12.5M deal, I officially approve. A bunch of things to be optimistic about: - Scutaro's played his entire career in pitcher's parks, and has reverse home/road splits. - His SS defense has been good for the past 3 years (5.8 UZR/150). - He's 34, but has shown no signs of decline, as his best two years have been the last 2. - If he loses the starting SS job to Lowrie or Iglesias, he can be a very good utility infielder. - Is a right-handed pull hitter who hits balls in the air (40% GB rate in recent years), which should be perfect for the Monster. - His 2009 season wasn't due to a fluky BABip. - 2 years and $12.5 million is a very good deal for him, if you don't consider the draft pick. - The draft pick shouldn't matter all that much, as this is a clear sign that the Sox intend on signing at least 1 more Type A (Holliday or Lackey, maybe one of the relievers too).
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Norm in Oregon		#82	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1014 12/04/09 12:24 PM Veteran Member	Bosoxwest wrote: Three things: ... 2) Why are Scutaro's "career" numbers being thrown around here? He has basically had two careers, one as a super-UT playing three positions and hitting at the bottom of the order in an extreme pitchers park, and one as a starting SS and leadoff hitter in front of some good bats. Why it is so difficult to grasp that there are reasons why he might perform better in the second situation? His component stats have not varied greatly over the years. ... Olney has it at 2/$12.5M before option = around $2M per WAR which is pretty standard. The money is not even an issue anyway; the pick is. One has to assume more signings are to follow. And of course, ideally Holliday is one of them. I was "throwing them around" as a guide to the cost, asking how much the guy was worth. Now that that's known your point about the valuation is right on. I do see the additional $3-4 million (the difference in a $7-8 million per year contract) as being relevant. There's a soft cap, and there may be plans for more players. Every little bit counts. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. ~ Frederick Douglass
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Arquimedez Bozo		#83	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8872 12/04/09 12:34 PM Chris Hatfield Senior Editor & Columnist SoxProspects.com	I can definitely live with those terms of the deal. I'll go ahead and second everything Buffs said above. and also... SwaggerThroughTheRoof wrote: Mutual options are for the same price. You are thinking of a dual option, which is what Varitek had. HA! (just kidding, you were technically right) "They should go to soxprospect so BOZO THE CLOWN and the rest of THE WANTS TO BE will give you some information" - legendary words from a legendary man "By the way I like the Canadian accent of Chris Hatfield" - the other Charlie Zink guy My Twitter / SoxProspects Twitter / SoxProspects on Facebook
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Hairps		#84	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 2036 12/04/09 12:34 PM Veteran Member	Uninspired. Tough for me to get too worked up about either way. The draft pick dynamic shifted pretty dramatically after Wagner signed with ATL, I think. Another off-season, and another 95 win team is officially now in the midst of being constructed. Ho hum. On to the next move, please.
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Bosoxwest		#85	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 248 12/04/09 12:35 PM	I agree with you Norm. The money is of course relevant. I should clarify that I meant that in light of their deciding they needed to shore up that position via free agency, it wasn't what was generating most of the uproar IMO. Sorry about that. Just wanted to say that Singer has disallowed me from posting new topics ever since my Freddy Guzman thread. He seemed very upset about my opinions and was almost hostile in his responses. He must have been upset about something else, I don't know, it was strange. Anyway, apparently he has deemed me unworthy of starting new discussions. Do I mind? I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man. -- Youngcheese, making my day
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804Sox		#86	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 972 12/04/09 12:45 PM	buffs44444 wrote: Now if we could just find a way to avoid the Scooter, Scootie-Mack, Scoot Dawg, etc nicknames, I'd be all good with this move..... Obviously, he would be a natural fit for the SCOOOOOOOOOOOOT cheer when he gets a big hit, but with Youks already on board, is it ethical to have 2 OOOOOOOOOOOOO-sound players? This definitely needs to be resolved before spring training . . .
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Arquimedez Bozo		#87	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8874 12/04/09 12:53 PM Chris Hatfield Senior Editor & Columnist SoxProspects.com	Hairps wrote: The draft pick dynamic shifted pretty dramatically after Wagner signed with ATL, I think. Agreed. I don't think there's any coincidence that this got done right after the Sox knew they likely were picking at #20. Not saying it was the be-all, end-all of signing Scutaro, but I feel like they likely preferred to make sure they either signed Holliday or that Bay or Wagner were signing elsewhere before pulling the trigger. "They should go to soxprospect so BOZO THE CLOWN and the rest of THE WANTS TO BE will give you some information" - legendary words from a legendary man "By the way I like the Canadian accent of Chris Hatfield" - the other Charlie Zink guy My Twitter / SoxProspects Twitter / SoxProspects on Facebook
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joshv02		#88	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 222 12/04/09 12:57 PM	Hairps wrote: Uninspired. Tough for me to get too worked up about either way. The draft pick dynamic shifted pretty dramatically after Wagner signed with ATL, I think. Another off-season, and another 95 win team is officially now in the midst of being constructed. Ho hum. On to the next move, please. Exactly. Boring. Correct perhaps, but boring.
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Union4Sox		#89	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 281 12/04/09 1:07 PM	Don't understand this move. Maybe someone could explain it more. First off, this shows that the Sox have little faith in Lowrie's ability to return from the wrist injury. Can't say I blame them, but I'm not sure why they wouldn't hedge their option w/ the much cheaper A-Gonzalez and save 2 draft picks at the same time. I was pretty impressed with Gonzalez down the stretch. Last Edited By: Union4Sox 12/05/09 1:32 PM. Edited 1 time.
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soxprospects		#90	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7257 12/04/09 1:11 PM Mike Andrews Executive Editor SoxProspects, LLC	One draft pick, not two. I would think the explanation from Theo would be the improved offense you get from A-Gon to Scuctaro is worth the extra $2M per and the additional year commitment. I also think there is some evidence that the two are not all that far apart defensively. Not everyone will agree, but I think that would be the Sox' explanation.
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mredsox89		#91	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 873 12/04/09 1:12 PM	Union4Sox wrote: Don't understand this move. Maybe someone could explain it more. First off, this shows that the Sox have little faith in Lowrie's ability to return from the wrist injury. Can't say I blame them, but I'm not sure why they wouldn't they wouldn't hedge their option w/ the much cheaper A-Gonzalez and save 2 draft picks at the same time. I was pretty impressed with Gonzalez down the stretch. Both Francona and Theo have both PUBLICLY stated that they can't trust Lowrie so it really shouldn't be a surprise he isn't in the 2010 plans. Scutaro will provide more offense than Gonzalez. Scutaro is the best option for the 2010 season at SS other than possibly moving Dustin and signing a 2B
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SexyBanana		#92	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1409 12/04/09 1:18 PM John Staff Writer SoxProspects.com	Union, Let me delve a little further into this issue for you. I saw Lowrie on his road back, BP, hitting in the cage, fielding, you name it. His wrist was not 100%, his bat was noticeably slow in catching up with anything more than a average fastball. His fielding was fine and he was rather smooth in that regard, but his wrist was absolutely not healed and he was playing in pain. The wrist has been a huge problem for him and there's no guarantee he will ever be able to be the player he could have been due to this injury. Think about Nomar after his wrist injury. This is why we needed to get someone consistent at short, I don't agree with Scutaro, but the money they are paying him isn't bad. I just don't like giving up the pick and feel like Scutaro isn't much more than a high end utility man. He does give stability however, and that is worth the sacrificed pick and the money for the Red Sox, his on base skills and solid defense are also something that will hopefully give us better production than we had last year pre A-Gon.
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Arquimedez Bozo		#93	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8875 12/04/09 1:28 PM Chris Hatfield Senior Editor & Columnist SoxProspects.com	bobzupcic wrote: I think this article on fangraphs helps explain Scutaro's 2009 season. I don't necessarily think he'll be able to post a .379 OBP again - but it does at least suggest that maybe his regression wont be as severe as most seem to think. This is an excellent article. It's a good read, particularly for anyone who wants to talk themselves into this being a good signing. It attributes his success to a tendency to take a lot of pitches along with a fantastic contact rate. "They should go to soxprospect so BOZO THE CLOWN and the rest of THE WANTS TO BE will give you some information" - legendary words from a legendary man "By the way I like the Canadian accent of Chris Hatfield" - the other Charlie Zink guy My Twitter / SoxProspects Twitter / SoxProspects on Facebook
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GuapoGuapo		#94	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1103 12/04/09 2:08 PM	Yirmiyahu wrote: - The draft pick shouldn't matter all that much, as this is a clear sign that the Sox intend on signing at least 1 more Type A (Holliday or Lackey, maybe one of the relievers too). That is the major plus sign for me - now that the Sox' first round cherry is gone, I'm hopeful we'll sign 3 or 4 compensation type-A's. We'll see. "I just really enjoy reading, man. It's totally a good way to stay centered." - Lars
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Yirmiyahu		#95	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 661 12/04/09 2:10 PM	soxprospects wrote: I also think there is some evidence that the two are not all that far apart defensively. Not everyone will agree, but I think that would be the Sox' explanation. Could you please explain this? I know that Gonzalez has been slower due to his 2008 knee injury, and that Scutaro may have improved defensively in recent years, but what's the argument that they're "not all that far apart" ? Thanks.
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Mhueg		#96	[url]	[-]
Posts: 184 12/04/09 2:20 PM Matt Staff Writer SoxProspects.com	Arquimedez Bozo wrote: bobzupcic wrote: I think this article on fangraphs helps explain Scutaro's 2009 season. I don't necessarily think he'll be able to post a .379 OBP again - but it does at least suggest that maybe his regression wont be as severe as most seem to think. This is an excellent article. It's a good read, particularly for anyone who wants to talk themselves into this being a good signing. It attributes his success to a tendency to take a lot of pitches along with a fantastic contact rate. Agreed, and I would add that after reading this, he sounds exactly like the type of player the red sox target and fits into our lineup well. It seems like another spot in the lineup where the pitcher will have to really work to get an out, and thats a change from our past shortstops (even through Nomar).
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SoxSail		#97	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 385 12/04/09 2:22 PM	Arquimedez Bozo wrote: bobzupcic wrote: I think this article on fangraphs helps explain Scutaro's 2009 season. I don't necessarily think he'll be able to post a .379 OBP again - but it does at least suggest that maybe his regression wont be as severe as most seem to think. This is an excellent article. It's a good read, particularly for anyone who wants to talk themselves into this being a good signing. It attributes his success to a tendency to take a lot of pitches along with a fantastic contact rate. That article makes the guy look like a god. Sign him for 15 years.
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rangoon82		#98	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 745 12/04/09 2:40 PM Veteran Member	I hope and think that this signing necessarily indicates the future signing of another Type A, preferably Holliday. I just cant see any team giving up a first rounder for a career .265/.337/.721 hitter. He's only topped the daunting .280 BA, 10 HR, and 10 SB milestones once in his career, all of which happened to occur last year - his contract year. Those aren't exactly "give up your first round pick" numbers BTW. To me this move screams continued issues at SS in '10 and '11. If Bay goes elsewhere and the Sox sign Holliday the team would still have enough chips in the farm to swing a deal for AGon/Halladay (should they so please) and at the same time replensish thier farm in the draft (1st rounders and supplementals for both Wagner and Bay but no second round pick). Last Edited By: rangoon82 12/04/09 2:56 PM. Edited 1 time.
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JimRiceRocks		#99	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1198 12/04/09 2:41 PM Veteran Member	Interesting piece. And some reader comments worth noting (and discussing, perhaps): "This is a scouting issue too. The Jays adjusted his batting stance this year. I think it is more sustainable than you think." "Scutaro's career path would make total sense if he came up at age 22 or 23 instead of 28. If you try to find a comparable season for a middle infielder at age 33 who came up late, you get really only three others- Davey Lopes, Eddie Stanky and Phil Rizzuto. Rizzuto is a fine comp. After his MVP season, Rizzuto settled in and gave the Yankees 3 seasons from age 34-36 at his career norms through age 33. That's what I would expect from Scutaro (i.e. an OPS+ of 92 if he's in the AL, and proportionately better if he's in the NL). The pitch analysis helps persuade me that Scutaro's season wasn't a fluke." Here's hoping they are right! "You can never have too much bitching" - left coast bosox fan "No wonder a lot of opponent's announcers have bullpenis envy - left coast bosox fan
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chavopepe2		#100	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1196 12/04/09 2:51 PM Josh Moderator SoxProspects Forum	This was touched on in the Trade Rater thread: Can anyone say conclusively if the Red Sox are on the hook for the $1.5 million buyout if they decline the team option and Scutaro picks up the $3 million option? I would have guessed that they are not, but I could be wrong.
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Red Sox Sign Marco Scutaro