Casey Kelly to pitch full time in SoxProspects Discussion Forum

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Casey Kelly to pitch full time

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TokenWilliams	Casey Kelly to pitch full time		Lead	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 497 11/01/09 11:44 AM	Tags : None Sean McAdam had an interesting article in today's Herald that talked about the decision Casey Kelly has coming up. It didn't offer any great insight, but the lack of insight is actually what is troubling. Casey stated the Sox haven't pressured him and have been behind him 100% as a short stop. He seems to know he has to pick one position next year and play it 100%. One of his quotes talks about how he misses short stop when he's pitching, but doesn't miss pitching when playing short. He also talks about the quickest to the majors which certainly seems like a pitcher. However, he talks about 15-20 years down the road with the longest career opportunity. Does a pitcher or short stop have the ability for a longer career (in general)? Imagine if he chooses to play short instead of pitch? His prospect status will plummet. The Sox will go from having a projected 1 or 2 on their hands to a project they need to develop at short stop/3b and not a lot of room to play him at short in any of their affiliates without taking away time from another prospect. My guess is if you start seeing him in trade rumors he's leaning towards short stop and the Sox want to get value for him now, but maybe i'm just paranoid. Here is the link to the article: http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1208795&format=&page=2&listingType=sox#articleFull Last Edited By: soxprospects 12/07/09 5:48 PM. Edited 1 time.
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jspearlj1		#1	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 4930 11/01/09 12:55 PM	Well a Shortstop usually has a longer career, but really its all dependent on his skill at each position. Right now I think we can safely say that he's a great glove no hit shortstop with some half decent potential to be at best and average hitter. As a pitcher he screams # starter right now but with some absolutely unknown potential to be a 1/2 depending on how he develops. Honestly he seems like the perfect trade chit right now. His prospect value is mostly still tied into potential based on projection on either side of the ball. Also, his value seems artificially high based on what is obviously some very good success, but with a more refined approach against inferior competition rather than pure stuff. His LD% (10.7) and BABIP (230) were absurdly low, a good sign that while he dominated his competition, those types of hit rates are completely unsustainable at higher levels. His K rate (6.99) was completely unspectacular when looking for "dominance." His profile just screams to me a guy who feasted on hitters with unrefined approaches, guys who probably chased bad pitches or couldn't handle semi-higher quality breaking stuff or changes of speed. If he were dominating A Ball based on killer stuff with a higher K rate I might be more inclined to defend him as a high level prospect, but his dominance came from weak contact and not walking guys, those are much less likely to carry over through the upper minors and majors then something like K rate will. When it comes to pitching prospects its all about how does their stuff stack up to the highest level, not necessarily how does their stuff stack up against peers. Right now, Kelly may be able to dominate A ball, but he doesn't have the stuff to do much against more advanced hitters in AAA and majors. Its still all about unknown projection with him, yet he's going to be ranked really highly because he did so well. Its those types of prospects (who perform incredibly well relative to peers based on polish rather than projection) that to me end up being artificially valued too highly. Sure I know with Kelly he still has tons of upside on the mound, but I wouldn't begrudge the sox one bit to sell him now after the season he has had. It's not as if we'd be trading Buck after the 07 season where some of his stuff ranked highly with MLB pitching.
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TWilliams4649		#2	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 137 11/01/09 12:58 PM	I just assumed that the Red Sox made the decision that he would be a pitcher when they signed Jose Iglesias to a 4 year 8.2 million dollar contract. And just by reading a lot of peoples comments it seems that a lot of people think we need a filler this year and then it will be Jose's job within the next couple of years. Kelly is in a tough position, he obviously has passion as a short stop, but he does have two good deciding factors. It seems as if in this case the fastest way for him to the majors is as a pitcher and pitchers usually last longer than short stops in the majors.
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MLBDreams		#3	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 548 11/01/09 1:13 PM	Let's see if we can use him & other RS prospects as trade chip to SD for (1B) Adrian Gonzales. Make Casey Kelly more happy by focus on playing SS instead of pitcher as future Padres. He could be next Adam Everett as weak hitter with great glove who knows. That's his career decision. I'm not going to cry if he gets trade based on his position perference.
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Bury the Hammer		#4	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 588 11/01/09 1:20 PM Veteran Member	He's going to be a pitcher. In a few years we'll look back and laugh at how we ever thought otherwise.
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Jrou8809		#5	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 37 11/01/09 1:54 PM	Bury the Hammer wrote: He's going to be a pitcher. In a few years we'll look back and laugh at how we ever thought otherwise. I sure hope so. But reading that article I feel like he's leaning towards shortstop (mistake IMO). He said something about he felt even though he played half a season at shortstop he never got a chance to find his groove. I could see him becoming a shortstop for next year and if he does well, he sticks with it. If he strugles he may switch back to pitching. Idk if this is even possible but there have been guys who flip flopped before
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havoc1995		#6	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 98 11/01/09 2:07 PM	Token said: Sean McAdam had an interesting article in today's Herald that talked about the decision Casey Kelly has coming up. I think you're framing this incorrectly. The title of the article is Decision looms for Sox, prospect Casey Kelly... that comma is important. The decision "looms" for the Sox, and to a lesser extent Kelly. Also, I think saying a decision is looming is over stating things. It's more like breaking the news to Kelly that he's going to be a pitcher is looming.
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TheGoldenGreek33		#7	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 3203 11/01/09 2:10 PM Veteran Member	Put me in the camp that thinks this isn't his decision.
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Cem21		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2461 11/01/09 2:13 PM Chris Mellen Director of Scouting SoxProspects.com	Bury the Hammer wrote: He's going to be a pitcher. In a few years we'll look back and laugh at how we ever thought otherwise. Agreed. Kelly's been saying the same thing since he was drafted and the Sox have been "exposing" him to pitching to take Theo's quote on their own terms. It's really the Sox decision here anyway. I'd be fairly shocked if he wasn't a full time pitcher next season, as would be a lot of people who saw him pitch this year, so I guess we'll see what happens when everyone sits down to decide.
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TokenWilliams		#9	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 499 11/01/09 5:04 PM	havoc1995 wrote: Token said: Sean McAdam had an interesting article in today's Herald that talked about the decision Casey Kelly has coming up. I think you're framing this incorrectly. The title of the article is Decision looms for Sox, prospect Casey Kelly... that comma is important. The decision "looms" for the Sox, and to a lesser extent Kelly. Also, I think saying a decision is looming is over stating things. It's more like breaking the news to Kelly that he's going to be a pitcher is looming. Not for nothing, but the title of the article means nothing so I don't care how it's worded or punctuated. Writers hand in the article as written and an editor or titlist puts a title on it. So it's the content that matters when referencing an article not the title. And this content makes it seem as if the decision is Casey's decision. If that is true he's obviously going to get input from the Sox and I'm sure that input will be frank and Theo and Co will tell him they strongly see his future as a starter and that they really want him to concentrate on pitching full time. I fully expect him to be a starter, but I'm slightly concerned he really doesn't want to be. Athletes are funny creatures. The good ones believe in themselves so deeply that I do not think Kelly is going to believe he cannot every bit as good at short stop as he can be as a starter. I don't know whose decision it is, but those who think it's not Casey's then why go through this exercise pretending it is to begin with? Do you think they'd tell him it is his decision to make all along then if he decides to play short then they're going to force him to pitch? More likely, I think they're going to lay out his competition, let him know where he's going to play, all the guys he has to jump over, the amount of time he's going to get, how short of a leash he'll have at certain levels if other guys are doing well and then he'll hopefully see he has no shot. Last Edited By: TokenWilliams 11/01/09 5:13 PM. Edited 1 time.
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Guidas		#10	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 33 11/01/09 6:07 PM	TokenWilliams wrote: I don't know whose decision it is, but those who think it's not Casey's then why go through this exercise pretending it is to begin with? Do you think they'd tell him it is his decision to make all along then if he decides to play short then they're going to force him to pitch? More likely, I think they're going to lay out his competition, let him know where he's going to play, all the guys he has to jump over, the amount of time he's going to get, how short of a leash he'll have at certain levels if other guys are doing well and then he'll hopefully see he has no shot. Even though I also think he's going to pitch no matter what he says about disliking playing only once every five days, I'm sure the Sox want this guy to mentally and emotionally commit to his ultimate role. It's likely the "we'll make a decision together" process started out as a genuine inquiry into what Kelly is better at, but given the current evidence, barring an injury, he will ascend the system faster as a pitcher. The key from here is helping Kelly toward that decision - and doing as much as they can to make him feel like he genuinely participated in that decision, so that they have complete buy-in going forward (and no looking back on what might have been). I've read quotes often by catchers/managers/pitching coaches saying the pitcher must be 100% committed to the pitch he's going to throw to make it work. I'm guessing it's be even more important for the pitcher to be 100% committed to pitching and not wishing he was still playing the field.
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buffs44444		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1241 11/01/09 6:50 PM	TheGoldenGreek33 wrote: Put me in the camp that thinks this isn't his decision. Same here. Easy call on this one..... Madness is like gravity....all you need is a little push.
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flap1919		#12	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 3029 11/01/09 9:03 PM	If it was worth worrying about, I'd worry about it. What is Kelly going to do at this point, give up the easy millions he'll be making in 4 or 5 years to go play football and maybe be a backup QB in the NFL. He shouldn't worry about the length of his career, but the size of his FA contract. While elite hitters get more than pitchers (which is still very much in doubt for him), mediocre starters get some pretty damn good and long contracts. If he can stay healthy for the next 7-9 years before he becomes a FA and remain the decent #2/3 starter, he's almost garunteed to make 70-100 million in free agency when you project what the market should be like. As a shortstop I'd put him in 30-50 million range at the moment. I'm pretty sure that everyone around him (including his father) will recognize this and explain it to him, it's a no brainer for everyone involved. Teach the kid how to golf so he has something to do in between starts, after that he can wipe away the tears of boredom with the piles of cash he's going to make.
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Sibby Sisti		#13	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 253 11/01/09 9:44 PM	It would not be the end of the world if he were to decide, for instance, to concentrate his career now on shortstop. Players have switched positions many times before (hello Ron Mahay, Tim Wakefield, Rick Ankiel) after going through the minor system and reaching the majors. How long would it take Kelly to re-adjust to pitching after a few years in the infield? If he's got the arm and the talent, he'll do it. I'm sure the Sox are hoping that, having seen Iglesias, Kelly will realize that he has a hill to climb to beat him out at the ss position in this organization.
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Guidas		#14	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 36 11/01/09 11:36 PM	I actually think Kelly is trade bait - not like, say, 2/3s of the PawSox are trade bait.They like him and my guess is the see him projecting as a 2-3 with a chance for a 1 if he can gain 2-3 mph on his fastball. But in his current encarnation - an athletic nearly 20yr old prospect with a live arm and plus control of 3 pitches he is the stuff gms & scouts dream of and project all kinds of fast moving success on. This may bear out or it may frustrate, but he's at that point where all the potential is just pushing at the seams. He's high on the dream shelf. You can either deal him now as a big part of a package for a stud or hold on and see if he becomes all the prognosticators hope he can be. If a deal for King Felix, Roy Halladay, Dan Haren or Josh Johnson comes up I think you have to let Kelly go (depending on what else they want). This is one of the few times inhis career where his perceived value exceeds known actual value in a signifincant way. Capitalize if you can.
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soxfreak13		#15	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 42 11/02/09 12:00 AM	It Shouldn't be Kelly's decision at all. It need's to be the Red Sox who sit him down and explain to him what his future would look like as a pitcher opposed to as a shortstop. The Red Sox are paying him an signing bonus a lot of us would kill to have, the Red Sox are supposed to be the ones who tell him what to do, The Red Sox are his boss. They need to tell him what to do. It seems to me like if they just told him "you're gonna be a pitcher" he'd say "fine, it's out of my hands" and down the road he'd thank them for it. He's only what, 19? You can't expect a 19 year old to make a life changing decision on the spot. The Red Sox need to give him some direction.
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SoxSail		#16	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 272 11/02/09 12:54 AM	There is no one who can make this decision other than Casey Kelly. He is the only one who is going to have to live with it every day of his life for the next 10-20 years. Imagine if someone told you what your job was going to be. I'm sure the Sox will do everything in their power to show him the right path, but he's the one who has to love his job enough to work every day year round at become one of the best 300 baseball players in the entire world.
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TheGoldenGreek33		#17	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 3208 11/02/09 1:04 AM Veteran Member	SoxSail wrote: There is no one who can make this decision other than Casey Kelly. He is the only one who is going to have to live with it every day of his life for the next 10-20 years. Imagine if someone told you what your job was going to be. I'm sure the Sox will do everything in their power to show him the right path, but he's the one who has to love his job enough to work every day year round at become one of the best 300 baseball players in the entire world. Listen, Casey elected to forgo his football scholarship to Tennessee to play baseball. Nobody forced him to do that. The Sox are the ones writing the paycheck. The Sox are ultimately the ones who decide what he's going to do. You don't tell your boss you'd rather do something other than what he told you to do because you would rather do what you want to do, do you? That is, unless your name is Chris Hatfield. Last Edited By: TheGoldenGreek33 11/02/09 2:53 AM. Edited 4 times.
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TokenWilliams		#18	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 501 11/02/09 10:01 AM	It's not arguable who's the boss in the situation, but professional sports aren't the same as working in an office. Yes, Kelly chose to sign with the Sox and play baseball over going to college and playing football, however, what did the Red Sox promise him when he signed? I don't know the answer to this, but I do know that pro-athletes talk and word spreads quickly. Assuming the Sox told Casey it would be his decision, it would be potentially damaging to other negotiations with other players down the road if they forced him to pitch after he decided he prefered to play shortstop. Everything I've read indicates to me that they have told him it would be his choice. If that's not then case then yes, he'll certainly be on the mound no question about it. However, I get the feeling Kelly prefers the shortstop position to pitching. What would the Sox real choices be if he tells them firmly that's what he prefers? What would the ramifications be if they denied him and made him pitch instead?
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havoc1995		#19	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 99 11/02/09 1:44 PM	Token: Not for nothing, but the title of the article means nothing Yeah I realized when I posted I made too much out of the article. I think it was a poor article and was a guy looking for something to write about. My overall thoughts were that the article overstated the "looming" decision for Kelly and that I think the ball is in the Sox court. From this article: What Kelly wants more than simply being a pitcher or a hitter is to be in the Major Leagues, preferably wearing a Red Sox uniform. He will do whatever it takes to get to that point. "I think the determining factor will be what I'm most comfortable with, whatever will get me to the big leagues the fastest," said Kelly. "That's the main goal, to get to the big leagues as quick as possible. Whatever position that might be is what I'm going to take." If he was being honest with himself here and this is how he feels, all it should take is for the Sox to have a discussion with him and tell him his future is in pitching. As far as having any agreement to let him make the decision... I have no clue. However, my impression was always that the Sox agreed to give him an equal shot at SS. They've done that and it's clear that to reach his goal of getting to the majors as quickly as possible pitching is the best option.
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SoxSail		#20	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 273 11/02/09 2:05 PM	TheGoldenGreek33 wrote: Listen, Casey elected to forgo his football scholarship to Tennessee to play baseball. Nobody forced him to do that. The Sox are the ones writing the paycheck. The Sox are ultimately the ones who decide what he's going to do. You don't tell your boss you'd rather do something other than what he told you to do because you would rather do what you want to do, do you? That is, unless your name is Chris Hatfield. Greek, it's not like an office job, because there aren't really two choices in an office job. You just do what needs to be done. But I've had meetings with employers where I said, I'd really like to help out with this aspect of architecture, and they've listened and let me shift my focus a little on occasion. They can bring in someone else to do the other thing. But for Kelly, this is more like a career choice; doctor or lawyer. I just don't buy it that the Sox would want to force him to take a path he wasn't interested in. If he's on the fence, and says "you decide," then sure, but if he really wants one or the other, and they can't convince him to see it their way, then they have to live with that. EditAdd: Not really much point in arguing this further. There are lots of people on your side of the story, and a couple on mine. Agree to disagree on this one. I would be interested in seeing a discussion on where Kelly would rank on this site if he chose SS, and so will open that up in the Meta forum. Last Edited By: SoxSail 11/02/09 4:02 PM. Edited 1 time.
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