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 ThSneak |
Which position is the strongest in the system? |
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Veteran Member
Posts: 107 06/12/09 12:04 AM |
Arquimedez Bozo wrote: Center Fielders. Lin/Kalish/Hissey/Westmoreland/Fuentes/Reddick?/Hazelbaker . Sorry, but that's #1 in my book.
Last Edited By: Arquimedez Bozo 06/13/09 5:37 PM.
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BNich0622 |
#1 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 134 06/12/09 12:14 AM |
Fuentes and Hazelbaker aren't signed yet. We have no clue what they have to offer at the professional level and if/when they do sign it is way to early to
tell how far they can advance. Lin hasnt been hitting this year, same with Hissey. And Westmoreland still has yet to play. I love Reddick and I think he is
still the number one outfield prospect in the system. But just look at the catchers in the system. Not only the level at which they are currently performing
but how well they are currently doing. This I think easily gives catching the nod over OF/CF for #1 position in the sox system.
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brox13 |
#2 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 1433 06/12/09 12:45 AM Moderator |
I may be in the minority, but I think catcher is the most overrated position in the system.
Fed-X and Lavarnway are both hitting very well, but they are each 21 in low-A, and no one knows if Lavarnway will have the defensive chops to stick behind the plate. They are also both slightly behind on our patented "Age Advancement Scale." Ty Weeden has gotten off to a poor start and has yet to show the power that was to be his best tool. I'm much lower on Exposito than most people here, but last year he hit well in Greenville where he was a bit older than average, and his numbers stayed similar when he moved to hitters haven Lancaster. This year, he hasn't been anything special. Wagner has been terrific this year, but he is repeating double-A, but he is a year behind on the "AAS." I'll jump on the bandwagon when he sustains his momentum in AAA. I agree that the prospects are more established at catcher than in centerfield, but the centerfielders have much higher upside. I hate to sound like ASF (pessimistic), but I just don't see why everyone raves about the positional depth or why we thought there would be a logjam if Stassi were drafted. You guys can choose my avatar when one of them becomes a starter on a playoff team.
I'm hearing
Hudson wants to become a hitter - his exact quote:
"Baby-Hühner graben die lange
Kugel"
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firstfruitsfarm |
Drive Observations | #3 | ||
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Rookie
Posts: 29 06/12/09 8:34 AM |
Scouts had Hagadone's FB at 94-95 MPH. Lavarnway's arm looked really good and accurate. Gunned down a stealer at third with a peg right on the bag. WMB
made a terrific bare hand on a bunt that got past the pitcher and nailed the batter by a step.
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Cem21 |
#4 | |||
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Posts: 2020 06/12/09 8:44 AM Chris Mellen
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BNich0622 wrote: I caution with Fed-Ex. Not because I am not high on him, but because of the fact he is barely drawing any walks. He is only ahead of Keowen, Marks, and Almanzar in the frequency of walks being drawn on the Greenville roster while striking out at a decent clip. I would watch for how that improves and impacts him once he is promoted to the next level. |
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 Average Fan |
#5 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 232 06/12/09 8:57 AM Veteran Member |
brox13 wrote:Don't catchers tend to be slightly behind on that scale? It's not position adjusted as I recall. |
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AMarshal2 |
#6 | |||
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Posts: 8526 06/12/09 8:58 AM
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Age advancement scale be damned, he's a catcher. I'm getting very excited about Mark Wagner and his potential to be an average to above average MLB
backstop.
aminahyaquin: Alou is a 37 year old 7 time MVP with a .347 lifetime batting average and a world of hustle. he
can golden glove field in his sleep.
tGG: Alou is actually 42, has never won an MVP, has a .303 lifetime batting average, and is mediocre at best in the field. joshv02: But, other than that, you're wrong. |
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ThSneak |
#7 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 108 06/12/09 9:28 AM |
BNich0622 wrote: At the end of the year, we'll have 3 CF in the top 10 (I'm counting Westmoreland. Maybe overly optimistic, I may be proved wrong) and 7 in the top 40. Compare that with 0 C in the top 10 and 4 in the top 40 (Maybe 5 if Oscar Perez sneaks in). |
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Arquimedez Bozo |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 7071 06/13/09 5:08 PM Chris Hatfield |
Split this discussion into its own thread because I think it's pretty interesting.
ThSneak, who are you counting as center fielders? I haven't seen him, but we'll have to see if Kalish can stick in center. Currently, there are three of each in the top 20, four C and five CF in the top 30, four and six in the top 40, and five and six in the top 60. Note that I am not counting Still as a catcher, nor am I counting Dening as a CF. |
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Solarsox |
#9 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 211 06/13/09 5:24 PM Veteran Member |
Since I question many of our CF's ability to stay in CF, I will go with catcher. BTW, here is Wagners career line if we assume he was injured last season
and forget his stats from last year...
.297 .391 .470 .861 W/K rate 136-133 I think thats pretty impressive from our best defensive catcher. |
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Arquimedez Bozo |
#10 | |||
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Posts: 7073 06/13/09 5:36 PM Chris Hatfield |
Solar, Wagner was NOT injured last season. FYI.
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BLumbergh |
#11 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 349 06/13/09 6:57 PM Veteran Member |
But his numbers look so much better when you remove the bad ones! I like Wagner as much as the next guy, but he's 25, is coming off a season in aa in
which he put up a .666 ops, and has never had a dominant offensive year before at any level (I'm not counting Lancaster; he had a nice year there, but not
as nice as other players who are fringy prospects at best). Maybe he's turned the corner -- he was good in the AFL last year and great thus far -- but
it's too early to feel confident that he's really made a quantum leap. Similarly, Fed-X is in low-a, has a bad k/bb rate, and didn't hit (much) in
college. I have a very hard time seeing this group standing up against Kalish/Reddick/Westmoreland/etc.
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ThSneak |
#12 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 115 06/14/09 7:38 PM |
I was counting Hazelbaker and Fuentes. I think it's a slam dunk that both sign, so I was comfortable, and I said end of year rankings. I think Fuentes is
solidly in the 15-20 range and Hazelbaker will start off in the high 20's and move from there based on performance in Lowell.
As BLumbergh said, I'm excited about Wagner's progress this year, but some of his numbers lead me to believe it could be somewhat influenced by luck (though he's clearly improved, the question is how much). As I mentioned before, I think the top 3 CF's (Reddick, Kalish, Westmoreland) are clearly better prospects than the top 3 C (Wagner, Federowicz, Exposito), and I think a guy like Lin is being discounted because he's been unlucky and injured. Also people aren't really taking age into account as much as they should. Look at the age advancement scale: Reddick 1.19 Kalish 2.29 Lin 1.77 Hissey 2.10 Wagner -1.50 Federowicz -0.36 Exposito 0.10 Lavarnway -0.35 I know that catchers come along more slowly because they have a lot more to learn defensively, but I don't think it can be totally ignored as a factor. I'm not hating on the catchers, again, I've been excited by what I've seen from them this year, but I just think they are not as strong. Edit: I hadn't read the posts in a couple of days, when I mentioned "people haven't ..." I see now that age was referenced already a couple of times, but I thought seeing the numbers was useful.
Last Edited By: ThSneak 06/14/09 7:45 PM.
Edited 1 time.
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BNich0622 |
#13 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 142 06/14/09 7:51 PM |
You know, the way Bates has been hitting the ball this year, along with Lars and Rizzo, that gives us 3 strong prospects at 1B. Not even a full year after
being diagnosed with cancer Rizzo has been hitting the ball great. Lars we all hope will get going sooner or later although his numbers are still respectable
and Bates has just been going crazy even at AAA with 2 homeruns last night and 3 more hits today now hitting .400 for pawtucket although it is a very SSS. I
realize Bates isn't as highly regarded as Rizzo and Lars but Still some food for thought. Even Jimenez who can play some first base is having a pretty
strong year with Portland. Jimenez is a bit of a stretch but he does have the ability to play 1B.
What does everyone else think? |
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ArodSucksAtLife |
#14 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 3369 06/14/09 10:40 PM Veteran Member |
AMarshal2 wrote: Absolutely. I'm more excited to follow Wagner's advancement and projecting his major league career than at least 7 of the guys above him on SP prospects rankings. and the answer the question is RH Starting Pitching. "ASAL is better than me at everything, especially fantasy basketball" --Norbit14 |
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ThSneak |
#15 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 118 06/15/09 10:41 AM |
Yeah, it wasn't part of this thread when it got spun off, but the original question was position prospects, excluding pitchers.
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IBSmith85 |
#16 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 45 06/15/09 11:09 AM |
BLumbergh wrote: Fed-X had pretty solid numbers in college, while playing in a solid conference 3 year averages of .319 avg. 7 HR 58 RBI .380 OBP .475 SLG .855 OPS thats a little better than "didnt hit (much)" "I will repeat as Rookie of the Year" - Dustin Pedroia |
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Urgent |
#17 | |||
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Rookie
Posts: 48 06/15/09 11:54 AM |
If pitchers are included, clearly the answer is RH starting pitchers, with Buchholz, Bowden, Kelly, Tazawa, and Pimental.
If just position players, you need to consider 1B, with Anderson, Rizzo, and Bates. That's a lot of depth and potential. The top three position groupings: 1B: Anderson-Rizzo-Bates OF: Reddick-Kalish-Mailman-Westmoreland C: Wagner-Federowicz-Exposito |
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ddawgs28 |
#18 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 870 06/15/09 3:00 PM Veteran Member |
Fed-X had pretty solid numbers in college, while playing in a solid conferenceA .319 average in college isn't really that good. Yes he did play in the ACC and he does catch, but that still isn't that good. Just to get some perspective, in order to be in the top 100 for batting average this year in Division-1 baseball you had to be at .392 or better. In fact .319 isn't good enough for top 500 in Division 1 and likely top 800. My point is that batting averages are much higher across the board in college because aluminum bats are used and defense isn't as good as the minors or majors. I will get excited about Fedoriwicz if he can continue to hit over .300 in AA, until then he is just an older college player dominating younger and lesser competition. |
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ziggyosk41 |
#19 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 1838 06/15/09 3:20 PM |
While I am excited about our Catchers I think that the players we have at Catcher are a little over-rated, I'd like to see guys like Expo and Fed-Ex
produce at the next level higher before I get too excited. That said I too think CF is our most stacked position and fully expect Fuentes and Hazelbaker to
sign so I have no problem including them in the equation.
Impact. Dominate.
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TokenWilliams |
#20 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 309 06/16/09 10:09 AM |
Deepest position is 1b, especially if they sign the players drafted in 2009. Reason being is Anderson is the number 1 prospect in the organization and Rizzo
is knocking on the door of the top 10. Then you have other guys like Bates, etc who are getting close that add depth as professional hitters. Monster upside,
plus professional depth plus the proximity to the majors = 1b.
As for catchers.... food for thought I'm not sure what numbers people are expecting from Wagner at the ML level, but if you think Varitek offensively was a solid bat then you can site him as an example of someone who didn't put up good offensive numbers in the minor leagues and developed into a solid hitting catcher at the major league level. Tek had 1 AB in the majors as 25, split time at age 26 and was full-time at age 27. Check out his minor league statistics: http://ecbl1.baseball.cbssports.com/players/playerpage/8145 They are not the least bit impressive. Now Varitek was and may still be considered the best offensive catcher in college history so his background was a lot different than Wagner or any of our other prospects. Bottom Line is catchers often take longer to develop different aspects, including offensively, because there is so much they are doing. It's not like a Firstbaseman who spends 90 percent of their time perfecting their swing and approach. A catcher probably spends less than a third of their time doing this. |
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