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01/21/12 9:28 PM
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01/21/12 9:33 PM
grandsalami wrote:totheights wrote:BigPapisMangoSalsa wrote:totheights wrote:BigPapisMangoSalsa wrote:totheights wrote:Fact of the matter is when Henry and Co. took over they said winning was the only thing they would accept. We haven't improved one bit on our team that missed the playoffs last year, in fact you could even argue that we got worse.Just really responding to the first part of this post, but if you're using the words that HWL said when they first took over the team, I think we can agree that they stuck to this - the WS Titles in '04 and '07 should back up what they said as true. They didn't accept anything less than winning, lets give credit where its due. Wait, so we should be happy with them winning those titles and just not trying to win anymore?I am forever greatful that the Red Sox won in '04 and '07. But that doesn't mean I will be happy if the team doesn't win for another 86 years again. No, you can expect more from them right now. However, when they said those words, 10 years ago, they held immediately to them. So I just think that to take someone's words from ten years ago, when they followed up on that promise - and then apply them to this off-season - seems unfair to me to say they aren't holding to their words seems unreasonable. Okay fine. Let's take Henry's words from after they bought Liverpool. It went something like, Liverpool will not take any money away from the Red Sox nor affect our ability to run that club.how much money have the yankees spent the past two years?. give it a rest, the sox are not stupid enough to blow through their payroll every year. this is the first year they have not spent for pete's sake. if they do this again next year you may have a point, but not after ONE FREAking year of not spending big in an offseason
totheights wrote:BigPapisMangoSalsa wrote:totheights wrote:BigPapisMangoSalsa wrote:totheights wrote:Fact of the matter is when Henry and Co. took over they said winning was the only thing they would accept. We haven't improved one bit on our team that missed the playoffs last year, in fact you could even argue that we got worse.Just really responding to the first part of this post, but if you're using the words that HWL said when they first took over the team, I think we can agree that they stuck to this - the WS Titles in '04 and '07 should back up what they said as true. They didn't accept anything less than winning, lets give credit where its due. Wait, so we should be happy with them winning those titles and just not trying to win anymore?I am forever greatful that the Red Sox won in '04 and '07. But that doesn't mean I will be happy if the team doesn't win for another 86 years again. No, you can expect more from them right now. However, when they said those words, 10 years ago, they held immediately to them. So I just think that to take someone's words from ten years ago, when they followed up on that promise - and then apply them to this off-season - seems unfair to me to say they aren't holding to their words seems unreasonable. Okay fine. Let's take Henry's words from after they bought Liverpool. It went something like, Liverpool will not take any money away from the Red Sox nor affect our ability to run that club.
BigPapisMangoSalsa wrote:totheights wrote:BigPapisMangoSalsa wrote:totheights wrote:Fact of the matter is when Henry and Co. took over they said winning was the only thing they would accept. We haven't improved one bit on our team that missed the playoffs last year, in fact you could even argue that we got worse.Just really responding to the first part of this post, but if you're using the words that HWL said when they first took over the team, I think we can agree that they stuck to this - the WS Titles in '04 and '07 should back up what they said as true. They didn't accept anything less than winning, lets give credit where its due. Wait, so we should be happy with them winning those titles and just not trying to win anymore?I am forever greatful that the Red Sox won in '04 and '07. But that doesn't mean I will be happy if the team doesn't win for another 86 years again. No, you can expect more from them right now. However, when they said those words, 10 years ago, they held immediately to them. So I just think that to take someone's words from ten years ago, when they followed up on that promise - and then apply them to this off-season - seems unfair to me to say they aren't holding to their words seems unreasonable.
totheights wrote:BigPapisMangoSalsa wrote:totheights wrote:Fact of the matter is when Henry and Co. took over they said winning was the only thing they would accept. We haven't improved one bit on our team that missed the playoffs last year, in fact you could even argue that we got worse.Just really responding to the first part of this post, but if you're using the words that HWL said when they first took over the team, I think we can agree that they stuck to this - the WS Titles in '04 and '07 should back up what they said as true. They didn't accept anything less than winning, lets give credit where its due. Wait, so we should be happy with them winning those titles and just not trying to win anymore?I am forever greatful that the Red Sox won in '04 and '07. But that doesn't mean I will be happy if the team doesn't win for another 86 years again.
BigPapisMangoSalsa wrote:totheights wrote:Fact of the matter is when Henry and Co. took over they said winning was the only thing they would accept. We haven't improved one bit on our team that missed the playoffs last year, in fact you could even argue that we got worse.Just really responding to the first part of this post, but if you're using the words that HWL said when they first took over the team, I think we can agree that they stuck to this - the WS Titles in '04 and '07 should back up what they said as true. They didn't accept anything less than winning, lets give credit where its due.
totheights wrote:Fact of the matter is when Henry and Co. took over they said winning was the only thing they would accept. We haven't improved one bit on our team that missed the playoffs last year, in fact you could even argue that we got worse.
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01/21/12 9:50 PM
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01/21/12 10:20 PM
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01/21/12 10:25 PM
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01/21/12 10:31 PM
AardsmaCarta wrote:If there was a trade of one year of Scutaro for one year of Oswalt, we'd all be in favor I think. Isn't that what this will be, ultimately?
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01/21/12 10:39 PM
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01/21/12 10:46 PM
Curll84 wrote:Scutaro is a fantastic ML INF who produced very well for the Red Sox. Sad to see him go.
Posts: 1987
01/21/12 10:51 PM
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01/21/12 10:55 PM
Posts: 89
01/21/12 11:06 PM
grandsalami wrote: totheights wrote: Bury the Hammer wrote: I don't get it.If it hasn't been made abundantly clear yet, it is simple. Our owners are being cheap this offseason. The bottom line is more important than the win totals.are sox fans really that spoiled that we can't handle ONE year of not making big FA signings? the yankees did the same last year. and the last few BIG FA signings have not turned out well. Lakcey (no) Jenks (no) dice-k (no) CC (no so far). the last two off seasons we broke the bank, and still didn't make the playoffs
totheights wrote: Bury the Hammer wrote: I don't get it.If it hasn't been made abundantly clear yet, it is simple. Our owners are being cheap this offseason. The bottom line is more important than the win totals.
Bury the Hammer wrote: I don't get it.
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Posts: 548
01/21/12 11:21 PM
BigPapisMangoSalsa wrote:I think this is what made the Crawford debacle this past year so confounding to a lot of people. While there could be an argument made that his skillset isn't worth the price tag (which I happen to disagree with) I don't think anyone could have reasonably expected that he wouldn't put up a year in line with his career averages, or more likely some manner of weighted 3-2-1 projection. In a typical sense, that just isn't the way it tends to work with players from their age 29 (this past season for CC) through about 33 or 34 year old seasons.
Posts: 90
01/21/12 11:28 PM
BigPapisMangoSalsa wrote: Timlin? Though I cannot tell from his Baseball Reference page if he was first signed for one year, and then re-signed or how that deal was structured. It's somewhat amazing how they've had very good track records with trades and extensions (Schilling, Gonzalez, even Beckett) but just awful when it comes to free agency (big money deals). I do think a lot of that is because free agency is, at its core, a fairly negative proposition. By definition, you're paying for past performance, and likely with the understanding that it's unlikely to continue for the duration of time that the contract is signed.I think this is what made the Crawford debacle this past year so confounding to a lot of people. While there could be an argument made that his skillset isn't worth the price tag (which I happen to disagree with) I don't think anyone could have reasonably expected that he wouldn't put up a year in line with his career averages, or more likely some manner of weighted 3-2-1 projection. In a typical sense, that just isn't the way it tends to work with players from their age 29 (this past season for CC) through about 33 or 34 year old seasons. All that said, while on its own I think the Scutaro deal would be a very bad sign for the fiscal health and competitiveness of the team, I really do not believe we're going to start the season without acquiring at least one more fairly high end starting pitcher (Oswalt, Floyd, another trade), and a more reliable option at shortstop. As do many others, I think that there are more deals that will take place. *This was in response to Yirm's posed FA deals. Also JD Drew was very good for the majority of his time here. Not quite worth the price tag, but per Fangraphs, he wasn't that far off it. They show that he "earned" about $57 million of the $70 million contract he signed, or put another way, he was worth slightly more than 4 of the 5 years. For a big money free agent signing, that's actually pretty good. This doesn't even take into account the extra three playoff game draws and WS championship merchandise from the $14M grand slam in 2007.
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01/21/12 11:30 PM
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01/21/12 11:49 PM
AardsmaCarta wrote:Every year Tampa runs out a lineup half-full of waiver guys and rushed prospects and they do fine because they have pitching.
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01/22/12 12:00 AM
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01/22/12 12:31 AM
buffs44444 wrote:FWIW, the Rays got a .539 OPS out of the SS position last year. Pretty sure Jose can do at least that.....
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01/22/12 8:03 AM
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01/22/12 8:13 AM
buffs44444 wrote:AardsmaCarta wrote:Every year Tampa runs out a lineup half-full of waiver guys and rushed prospects and they do fine because they have pitching. Exactly. FWIW, the Rays got a .539 OPS out of the SS position last year. Pretty sure Jose can do at least that.....
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