2011-2012 MLB Offseason Thread in SoxProspects Discussion Forum

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2011-2012 MLB Offseason Thread

Author	Comment
jmei		#441	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1454 01/14/12 6:33 PM Forum Moderator	I can understand being annoyed by Valentine. He is, after all, always a loudmouth and occasionally classless. He certainly won't stick around as long as Tito has. But at this juncture, it's impossible to tell whether he'll be a good manager for this team.
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80GradeMouth		#442	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 43 01/14/12 7:33 PM	What the Yankees trade highlights for me is the utter failure of the Red Sox International Scouting department under Craig Shipley. Under Shipley the Red Sox signed only two players who had major league value, (Matsusaka and Okajima) and got nothing out of Latin America. The Yankees however were able to develop Ivan Nova and used two international signees to get a young fireballing right hander. Two of the players that have been talked up as possibly useful for the Yankees are Eduardo Nunez and Vasquez, also both International signees. The Red Sox don't have anybody who resembles these players This isn't about money, as the Red Sox have spent plenty of money in Latin America. It's about better scouting, or maybe just empowering the scouts that are already here. It's about not dumping $700K on Ocsar Perez when no one else thinks he can play. Whatever the case, this needs to change. With the new draft rules, and up and coming organizations in the division, the Red Sox are going to be at a serious disadvantage unless the results start to change dramatically. Myself I'd love to see some reporting on this site as what went on that led to such poor results and ultimately Shipley's demise. Was it really Shipley's management style? How was Shipley able to keep his job for so long amid so many failures and a lack of results. How are things going to be different under Eddie Romero Jr? Is Bogarts, the Red Sox best international prospect in many years, a lucky exception or representative of a real improvement?
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jmei		#443	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1455 01/15/12 12:26 AM Forum Moderator	80GradeMouth wrote: What the Yankees trade highlights for me is the utter failure of the Red Sox International Scouting department under Craig Shipley. Under Shipley the Red Sox signed only two players who had major league value, (Matsusaka and Okajima) and got nothing out of Latin America. (a) Xander Bogaerts (b) Jose Iglesias (c) Jose Vinicio, R. Alcantara, J.C. Linares, J. Tazawa, O. Tejada, S. Pimentel, Y. Navarro, C-H Lin, etc. Certainly, the results from the international market have been poor. But to call it an "utter failure" without any sort of nuanced comparative analysis (besides a shallow comparison to the Yankees) might be a bit hasty. The Red Sox have signed and developed plenty of useful int'l prospects, and while none have received as much buzz as Montero, more than a few of the above players will contribute at the major league level.
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DCB26		#444	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 52 01/15/12 2:19 AM	jmei wrote: 80GradeMouth wrote: What the Yankees trade highlights for me is the utter failure of the Red Sox International Scouting department under Craig Shipley. Under Shipley the Red Sox signed only two players who had major league value, (Matsusaka and Okajima) and got nothing out of Latin America. (a) Xander Bogaerts (b) Jose Iglesias (c) Jose Vinicio, R. Alcantara, J.C. Linares, J. Tazawa, O. Tejada, S. Pimentel, Y. Navarro, C-H Lin, etc. Certainly, the results from the international market have been poor. But to call it an "utter failure" without any sort of nuanced comparative analysis (besides a shallow comparison to the Yankees) might be a bit hasty. The Red Sox have signed and developed plenty of useful int'l prospects, and while none have received as much buzz as Montero, more than a few of the above players will contribute at the major league level. Agree, and you can add Doubront to that list as well. Do the Yankees really hit it big on every international signing? Even if they do, does that mean anything? As it is we're one season of Montero proving his doubters right or Iglesias producing at the plate from the Sox looking pretty good. Plus, there was Kei Igawa, that alone has to cost the Yankees 50 points off their IFA score.
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BorisMan		#445	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 900 01/15/12 9:56 AM Veteran Member	Curll84 wrote: BorisMan wrote: Curll84 wrote: The M's aren't in "sell" mode, they think Montero will be their face of the franchise along with Ackley and Felix. And the Blue Jays would top any offer for Felix. As would any 14 other clubs with better minor league talent than the Red Sox. Just because there are 10 other teams with better minor league talent doesn't mean Felix would put any/all of them over the top. It would not make sense for most of those teams that could top the Sox offer. Right. When an ace becomes available, someone who can puts fans in the stadium, who is cost controlled and just 25, only the Red Sox and Yankees would want to trade for him. I'm sure the Royals, Orioles, Padres, Nationals, and Pirates will gleefully hold on to their prospects while a top 5 pitcher, someone who can produce for another decade, goes to a big market team. The Red Sox couldn't get a package together for Felix without including Jacoby or Buchholz. The right prospects aren't there. Cost controlled? He averages $19m for next 3 years. If the bidding starts with Ells or Buch what do the teams you mentioned have to offer(all-star players) that would make sense besides the Nats? The Royals traded Greinke for prospects. They're not trading their youngins. He's not going to Texas or Tampa, the other teams that have better prospects. And stop with the "we are the Red Sox, we want we get" crap. That isn't what I was saying. Make the best possible offer for Felix and be done with it. What harm is there? They say no? What, that hasn't happened before? They've been trying for years so don't think they'll stop till he signs elsewhere as a FA.
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jmei		#446	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1458 01/15/12 10:24 AM Forum Moderator	Theo has called up the Mariners literally every year for three or four years now and offered literally everyone in the farm system for Felix. There was a report last summer (or maybe 2010?) which had Theo offering any five prospects from the RS minor league system for him. After the Pineda deal, there were reports that the Red Sox and Yankees inquired on Felix again and were turned down again. They've made a "best offer" again and again but the Mariners clearly don't want to trade him yet.
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Curll84		#447	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1517 01/17/12 3:38 PM	V-Mart is done for 2012 http://espn.go.com/mlb/st...ds-season-ending-surgery LegendofJedLowrie.com \| RoyalRooters.com
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amfox1		#448	[url]	[-]
Posts: 9065 01/17/12 3:43 PM Senior Forum Moderator	Crushing blow for the Tigers and Victor.
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jmei		#449	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1463 01/17/12 3:59 PM Forum Moderator	The AL Central might be the weakest division in baseball (NL West is the only other real candidate).
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Duffman545		#450	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1339 01/17/12 4:19 PM	80GradeMouth wrote: Two of the players that have been talked up as possibly useful for the Yankees are Eduardo Nunez and Vasquez, also both International signees. Not to pile on, but both of these players are a product of the NY hype machine. The only reason we know their names is because "they play for the Yankees, so they must be somebody." Nunez has topped a .750 OPS twice in his seven year career, one of those times having come in low-A. He may be a fine and versatile defender, but those players are a dime a dozen. Vazquez will be 30 by opening day with 0 MLB at bats and a Soriano-esque K:BB ratio. They're useful players, yeah, but guys like Nunez and Vazquez come along every year.
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Yirmiyahu		#451	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3873 01/17/12 5:00 PM Forum Moderator	jmei wrote: The AL Central might be the weakest division in baseball (NL West is the only other real candidate). It's true, and no one in that division has done anything to improve themselves this offseason. I actually think that Cleveland has a shot to beat Detroit for the division title next season. Unlike anyone else in that division, they haven't done anything dumb like give multiple years to Josh Willingham or Jeff Francoeur, overpay for someone like John Danks during a rebuilding, trade for Delmon Young, or bring back Yuni Betancourt. Ubaldo Jimenez should bounce back, and I liked the Derek Lowe acquisition.
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FenwayTheHardWay		#452	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 3395 01/17/12 7:47 PM Veteran Member	Yirmiyahu wrote: jmei wrote: The AL Central might be the weakest division in baseball (NL West is the only other real candidate). It's true, and no one in that division has done anything to improve themselves this offseason. I actually think that Cleveland has a shot to beat Detroit for the division title next season. Unlike anyone else in that division, they haven't done anything dumb like give multiple years to Josh Willingham or Jeff Francoeur, overpay for someone like John Danks during a rebuilding, trade for Delmon Young, or bring back Yuni Betancourt. Ubaldo Jimenez should bounce back, and I liked the Derek Lowe acquisition. Dumb Dayton Moore moves aside, I think Cleveland is trying to move their window up a bit (especially with the Ubaldo trade) before this fright train hits them: "thats 4 dingers tonite for #rays off wakefield, who looks his age, only older" - Jon Heyman
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Yirmiyahu		#453	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3877 01/17/12 10:31 PM Forum Moderator	Tim Lincecum asks for $21.5 million in arbitration. Good lord. Only 3 pitchers have ever gotten more than: $20M annually (Sabathia, Lee, Santana), and certainly no one with only 4 years of service. Starting pitchers after their 4th year of service: King Felix: $6.5M, Verlander: $6.75M, Johnson: $3.75M, Zambrano: $6.5M, Beckett: $4.325, Lester: $5.75, Weaver: $7.37, Haren: $5.5M, Santana: $5.5M, Greinke: $3.75M, Peavy: $4.75M, Lee: $3.75M, Halladay: $6M, Webb: $4.5M, Kazmir: $6M, Buehrle: $5.75M, Willis: $6.45M... Most of those were part of long-term extensions, but still.
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jmei		#454	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1465 01/17/12 10:42 PM Forum Moderator	To be fair, Lincecum might be the best pitcher ever to go to arbitration with 4 years of service time.
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Yirmiyahu		#455	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3878 01/17/12 11:06 PM Forum Moderator	jmei wrote: To be fair, Lincecum might be the best pitcher ever to go to arbitration with 4 years of service time. I agree with you, but a bigger factor is that he was already being paid a historically massive amount (which was agreed to right after he won back-to-back Cy Youngs). And previous salary is as big a factor as actual performance. In 2003, Roy Halladay won the Cy Young. He also had a 3-year ERA of 3.11. After that season, he had 4+ years of service time, and headed to arbitration. Instead, he agreed to a 4-year extension. In that first year (the arb year we're focusing on), he was only paid $6M. No signing bonus, either. Obviously, salaries have risen since then, but that's the closest comparable I can find. A problem with finding a comparable is that most young aces are locked up to extensions very quickly. Plenty of hitters have gone through the later years of arbitration, but not many pitchers.
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Norm in Oregon		#456	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1774 01/18/12 12:50 AM Veteran Member	Yirmiyahu wrote: I know the Yankees needed pitching and the Mariners always need hitting, but these are pretty awful fits for their ballparks. Safeco is death for RH sluggers (see Adrian Beltre), and Yankee Stadium is a HR-hitting contest vs RH flyball pitchers (see AJ Burnett, Javier Vazquez). Good post. This was my first thought. I have no idea where Seattle plans to play Montero and his value is greatly lessened in that park. It's a very tough place for right-handers unless you can take a pitch anywhere you want (see Edgar Martinez). Montero isn't there yet and he many not be for a while. He's certainly a solid right-handed bat but that's about it, and Pineda showed real promise in that big park. I thought he'd have more value to them than a slugger, and he may have a few problems in the wind-tunnel that is the current version of Yankee Stadium. For the Yankees this does offer some flexibility, since they get a 4 or 5 starter who won't see arbitration for a while. It does seem to be all about cost-control these days, doesn't it? Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. ~ Frederick Douglass
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Yirmiyahu		#457	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3881 01/19/12 1:29 AM Forum Moderator	Yirmiyahu wrote: To try to change the subject: who's starting the pool on what contract Darvish will get? I call $60M/6. Alright, what do I win?
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remember04		#458	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 544 01/19/12 1:33 AM	Yirmiyahu wrote: Yirmiyahu wrote: To try to change the subject: who's starting the pool on what contract Darvish will get? I call $60M/6. Alright, what do I win? My deepest condolences for obviously having no life outside of baseball :P
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DCB26		#459	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 64 01/19/12 10:38 AM	Yirmiyahu wrote: Yirmiyahu wrote: To try to change the subject: who's starting the pool on what contract Darvish will get? I call $60M/6. Alright, what do I win? The opportunity for round 5 (or so) of the "Japanese stats don't translate to MLB!" "Yes they do!" "No they don't!" argument? On Sports Center yesterday (I know, I know) someone, maybe Kurkjian, described Darvish as "somewhere between AJ Burnett and Beckett" fwiw.
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norbit14		#460	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 4076 01/19/12 3:35 PM Veteran Member	La Policía Nacional informó este jueves el arresto del lanzador de Grandes Ligas Fausto Carmona, acusado de usar doble identidad. Según el vocero de la institución, Máximo Báez Aybar, el pelotero, cuyo nombre real es Roberto Hernández Heredia, fue detenido a su salida del Consulado de Estados Unidos, donde realizaba trámites para la renovación de visa. A través de Twitter, Aybar informó que el arresto se produjo en coordinación con el consulado, como parte de las medidas tomadas por la Policía y esa representación del gobierno de Estados Unidos. My translation: The National Police(of the Dominican Republic) has informed this thursday that they arrested big league pitcher Fausto Carmona, accused of useing a double identity. According to the spokeperson of the institucion, Máximo Báez Aybar, the player, whose real name is Roberto Hernández Heredia, was detain when he was leaving the United States Consulate, where he was doing paper work to renew his visa. Via twitter, Aybar informed that the arrest was in coordination with the U.S Consulate as part of new measures taken by the National Police and that representation of the U.S Government. Thats my translation but here is the original link if you speak Spanish. Am Dominican and you?? Last Edited By: norbit14 01/19/12 3:41 PM. Edited 1 time.
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2011-2012 MLB Offseason Thread