Kalish had shoulder surgery in November, out until May/June in SoxProspects Discussion Forum

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Kalish had shoulder surgery in November, out until May/June

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Curll84		#21	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1493 12/30/11 12:23 AM	Alright, I'm all but done with this kid. Regarding his ability to stay healthy, he makes Trot Nixon look like J.D. Drew. Because, you know, Nixon was hurt more than Drew during their Red Sox tenure. You were an exciting prospect for a bit, Ryan. LegendofJedLowrie.com \| RoyalRooters.com
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stats39		#22	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 153 12/30/11 12:38 AM	Please don't go into the season without adding a RF. If ya though we had a lack of production last year from RF. It doesn't have to be a star, but come on. Imagine if Crawford or Ellsbury got hurt for any length of time( both have shown the ability to miss games)?
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Guidas		#23	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 2467 12/30/11 12:46 AM	buffs44444 wrote: 80GradeMouth wrote: "Who else is out there?" As I said in another thread my first choice would be Andrew Jones. My second would be Matt Murton. IMO Ross is going to be overvalued by someone because he starred in the World Series. Ludwick isn't worth a 40 man spot. I'm not sure about Cespesdes, obviously could be great but could also be a huge waste of money. Most of those guys would be hard pressed to beat out the Sweeney/McDonald platoon. Cespedes looks better by the day. Better to take a shot at greatness than to pick through the heap of has-been/never-was..... Please mistake me not, Lou - I'm for a Sweeney/AJones platoon straight up. Darnell, it's been good to know you. Cespedes I would love, but my guess is if they didn't even try to play footsie with Darvish, Cespedes might be a dream. Unless of course Ben got a jones of his own when he went to the DR to scout him. Still, Mr. Larry and JH would have to let him buy that shiny new toy. Jones will prob cost $3M with a few incentive clauses.
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buffs44444		#24	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1977 12/30/11 12:55 AM	Guidas wrote: Please mistake me not, Lou - I'm for a Sweeney/AJones platoon straight up. Darnell, it's been good to know you. Cespedes I would love, but my guess is if they didn't even try to play footsie with Darvish, Cespedes might be a dream. Unless of course Ben got a jones of his own when he went to the DR to scout him. Still, Mr. Larry and JH would have to let him buy that shiny new toy. Jones will prob cost $3M with a few incentive clauses. Jones is a good player, but is the difference worth the extra $3M? Based on 3-year splits, Jones OPS vs LHP is .866; McDonald's is .832. If no Cespedes, I'm ok with Jones. Just saying we've seen a lot of tight budgeting this year and the current situation in RF isn't awful if it allows more $$ to go towards the rotation. Either way, I think everyone (outside of Curl) is hoping this entire discussion becomes moot by midseason and Kalish takes over the spot for the next 10 years..... Madness is like gravity....all you need is a little push.
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ray88h66		#25	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 206 12/30/11 1:11 AM	I knew nothing of this second surgery for Kalish. As Sarasoxer said, you're talking about a guy that will have missed way too much time to count on for much help this year. Last Edited By: ray88h66 12/30/11 1:52 AM. Edited 1 time.
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jmei		#26	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1421 12/30/11 1:22 AM Forum Moderator	Darnell MacDonald had a crazy-low BABIP last year (.258) while posting career-low strikeout numbers (18.9%), solid BB numbers (8.0%), and a career-high ISO (.166). While he is a disaster in CF, Totalzone and UZR have him as average in RF and slightly above-average in LF. If he posts something like a .270/.330/.430 line (basically his Bill James projections), that's a useful player (roughly league-average on both offense and defense). Note that Cody Ross is projected for similar offensive numbers (Bill James: .254/.324/.433) and has a similar defensive profile. If he requires a multi-year commitment or more than a $2m-ish AAV, I'd rather go with Darnell MacDonald. Andruw Jones is slightly better (something like .230/.340/.470) but the same caveats apply-- I'm not willing to commit to more than one guaranteed year or more than a $3-4m AAV.
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Arquimedez Bozo		#27	[url]	[-]
Posts: 12641 12/30/11 1:26 AM Chris Hatfield Executive Editor SoxProspects.com	OK, to clarify for everyone. 1) This is the same shoulder injury; 2) This is a new surgery. Perhaps breaking down the timeline will help: April 2011: Kalish injures shoulder. He and team elect to try to rehab it before opting for surgery Some point in mid-2011: Kalish develops neck injury. Says shoulder is fine, but now neck injury is bothering him. Early August 2011: Kalish attempts to return to playing Late August 2011: Kalish is unable to continue playing September 2011: Kalish undergoes surgery on his bulging disc in his neck. November 2011: Kalish undergoes surgery on the shoulder he injured in April, which after all didn't wind up responding to rehab. Without the neck injury, chances are he undergoes this surgery mid-season. In my opinion, not fair to stick him with "injury prone" just yet, as this is one series of injury really. It's a lost year. Also, Curll, I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to comment on a player's injury history when you link to "LegendofJedLowrie.com" "I think the baby is sleeping right now." - Jonathan Singer Twitter: @ChrisHatfield/@SoxProspects / SoxProspects on Facebook
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mredsox89		#28	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1660 12/30/11 1:38 AM	Arquimedez Bozo wrote: OK, to clarify for everyone. 1) This is the same shoulder injury; 2) This is a new surgery. Perhaps breaking down the timeline will help: April 2011: Kalish injures shoulder. He and team elect to try to rehab it before opting for surgery Some point in mid-2011: Kalish develops neck injury. Says shoulder is fine, but now neck injury is bothering him. Early August 2011: Kalish attempts to return to playing Late August 2011: Kalish is unable to continue playing September 2011: Kalish undergoes surgery on his bulging disc in his neck. November 2011: Kalish undergoes surgery on the shoulder he injured in April, which after all didn't wind up responding to rehab. Without the neck injury, chances are he undergoes this surgery mid-season. In my opinion, not fair to stick him with "injury prone" just yet, as this is one series of injury really. It's a lost year. Also, Curll, I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to comment on a player's injury history when you link to "LegendofJedLowrie.com" He got hurt from diving in the OF and its one injury that needed two procedures. It's like calling Lowrie injury prone because he got mono or Pedroia because he broke his foot. It's one injury that they tried to rehab, that didn't work, he had surgery, still wasn't 100%, had another surgery. He will miss 1 year of game time. I'd rather that than have a guy that misses 20+ games due to injury every year who actually is injury prone Last Edited By: mredsox89 12/30/11 2:33 AM. Edited 1 time.
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joshv02		#29	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 990 12/30/11 9:40 AM	Good timeline, AB. Additionally, I'm pretty sure we also already knew of the surgery. On December 6, 2011, Pete Abe wrote "Kalish, a contributor in 2009, was limited to 24 minor league games last season because of shoulder and neck injuries that required surgery." This doesn't feel newsy at all. What happened is that Reddick was traded and so reporters went to interview Kalish, who then said "uh, remember dudes, I had shoulder surgery?" That caused reporters to wake up during the holidays and report on what they should have reported on about a month ago or two ago. It isn't "new."
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Curll84		#30	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1494 12/30/11 10:31 AM	Arquimedez Bozo wrote: In my opinion, not fair to stick him with "injury prone" just yet, as this is one series of injury really. It's a lost year. Also, Curll, I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to comment on a player's injury history when you link to "LegendofJedLowrie.com" Who is the starting Shortstop (and best player, in my opinion) on a MLB team. Kalish hasn't proven a single thing. He has 1695 AB in the minors in five seasons. Jed Lowrie has 1655 in six (including injury rehab), been in the playoffs, and again, is the starting SS for a MLB team. There isn't a comparison. One player is a proven commodity at the major league level, the other is a name on a sheet of paper. LegendofJedLowrie.com \| RoyalRooters.com
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FenwayTheHardWay		#31	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 3382 12/30/11 10:52 AM Veteran Member	Curll84 wrote: There isn't a comparison. One player is a proven commodity at the major league level, the other is a name on a sheet of paper. Wishcasting. "thats 4 dingers tonite for #rays off wakefield, who looks his age, only older" - Jon Heyman
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soxprospects		#32	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10351 12/30/11 10:53 AM Mike Andrews Editor-in-Chief SoxProspects.com	I like Lowrie a lot, but as of right now he just projects to be a starting MLB shortstop on paper. Far from a proven starting commodity in my opinion. He's started a total of 131 games at SS in four seasons. That's an average of 33 starts at SS per season - much more of what you'd expect from a bench player. He's also only played in 12 playoff games, hitting .194 with a .542 OPS in that stretch. I think AB's point is that both have had injuries to overcome -- Lowrie has made strides to some extent, should make some more this year, and maybe Kalish can as well. I agree with Curll that Lowrie is a much more valuable player at this point, but I don't think that has much to do with the point that AB was trying to make.
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Guidas		#33	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 2468 12/30/11 11:03 AM	buffs44444 wrote: Guidas wrote: Please mistake me not, Lou - I'm for a Sweeney/AJones platoon straight up. Darnell, it's been good to know you. Cespedes I would love, but my guess is if they didn't even try to play footsie with Darvish, Cespedes might be a dream. Unless of course Ben got a jones of his own when he went to the DR to scout him. Still, Mr. Larry and JH would have to let him buy that shiny new toy. Jones will prob cost $3M with a few incentive clauses. Jones is a good player, but is the difference worth the extra $3M? Based on 3-year splits, Jones OPS vs LHP is .866; McDonald's is .832. If no Cespedes, I'm ok with Jones. Just saying we've seen a lot of tight budgeting this year and the current situation in RF isn't awful if it allows more $$ to go towards the rotation. Either way, I think everyone (outside of Curl) is hoping this entire discussion becomes moot by midseason and Kalish takes over the spot for the next 10 years..... Darnell takes lousy routes to balls, misplays enough out there to be noticeable and has a midling arm. Jones isn't what he was but is definitely a better defender, better arm and a little more pop. And in a pinch he can play any of the other two OF positions in a pinch better than DMac. Would love Cespedes too (or at least the idea of him), but I think this F.O. doesn't want to throw the cash there.
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sittingstill		#34	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 325 12/30/11 11:57 AM Contributing Photographer	joshv02 wrote: Additionally, I'm pretty sure we also already knew of the surgery. On December 6, 2011, Pete Abe wrote "Kalish, a contributor in 2009, was limited to 24 minor league games last season because of shoulder and neck injuries that required surgery." Given that Pete Abe wrote in the piece that started this thread "But in an interview with the Globe this afternoon, Kalish revealed that in addition to the surgery he had on his neck in September, he also had surgery on his left shoulder on Nov. 8 to repair a torn labrum" [bold mine] I don't think he knew about the second surgery when he wrote his December 6 piece.
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jdb		#35	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 819 12/30/11 12:18 PM	Like most I would love the thought of Jones being the other half of a platoon in RF but not at the cost of not signing Kuroda or Oswalt. We had the best offense in baseball last year with no production from RF and a down year for Crawford. I could live with Darnell and Sweeny out there if our rotation is upgraded. How would the Kalish time line compare to Gonzalez? Gonzalez started baseball activities in mid March and I think he had his surgery right after the season.
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Guidas		#36	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 2470 12/30/11 12:50 PM	Kalish's surgery was to his throwning shoulder, Gonzalez's was not. The range of motion will have to be more fully recaptured, and more important, will be the calcification of the anchors (screws) they had to put in there to re-attach the labrum to the the shoulder capsule. The severity the tear dictates how many screws they put in. He'll never regain the full flexibility he had in there before, but since he's not a pitcher and doesn't have to repeat his throwing motion at full effort dozens of times each day, he should be relatively fine, but I bet that arm won't be back to full strength until this time next year. Guessing that they are letting him DH in the spring prob means he'll be ready for "game throws" (full effort and torque) sometime in late April, early May.
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jmei		#37	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1422 12/30/11 12:51 PM Forum Moderator	Adrian had his on his non-throwing shoulder, whereas Kalish is having it on his throwing shoulder, which lengthens rehab a few months. I think ready to play minor league games by mid-May is a reasonable projection.
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Yirmiyahu		#38	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3818 12/30/11 1:46 PM Forum Moderator	Guidas wrote: Kalish's surgery was to his throwning shoulder, Gonzalez's was not. The range of motion will have to be more fully recaptured, and more important, will be the calcification of the anchors (screws) they had to put in there to re-attach the labrum to the the shoulder capsule. The severity the tear dictates how many screws they put in. He'll never regain the full flexibility he had in there before, but since he's not a pitcher and doesn't have to repeat his throwing motion at full effort dozens of times each day, he should be relatively fine, but I bet that arm won't be back to full strength until this time next year. Guessing that they are letting him DH in the spring prob means he'll be ready for "game throws" (full effort and torque) sometime in late April, early May. My biggest concern with the Kalish injury is the fact that he's needed for RF, where strong throws are obviously an important part of the game. And, just out of curiosity, where's all your knowledge of sports medicine come from?
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Guidas		#39	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 2471 12/30/11 2:08 PM	Four broken ribs (right side), two broken fingers (left), one broken hand (left), two torn ACL/MCL/PCL/meniscus surgeries (both left), one torn rotator cuff and torn labrum and fractured acromion (right side), one torn biceps tendon (right side), one torn triceps tendon (left side), bone spurs in shoulder (right) and elbow (left) one cracked pelvis (left side), four concussions (but I never went all the way out during any of them so I've got that going for me, which is nice). So yeah, it was a rough night of sex.
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Curll84		#40	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1495 12/30/11 2:41 PM	Guidas wrote: Four broken ribs (right side), two broken fingers (left), one broken hand (left), two torn ACL/MCL/PCL/meniscus surgeries (both left), one torn rotator cuff and torn labrum and fractured acromion (right side), one torn biceps tendon (right side), one torn triceps tendon (left side), bone spurs in shoulder (right) and elbow (left) one cracked pelvis (left side), four concussions (but I never went all the way out during any of them so I've got that going for me, which is nice). So yeah, it was a rough night of sex. And yet you still left the money on the dresser for me. So brave. LegendofJedLowrie.com \| RoyalRooters.com
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Kalish had shoulder surgery in November, out until May/June