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Posts: 21
12/23/11 11:53 PM
I'm fairly certain Klaw believes Montero has close to a 0% chance sticking at catcher, so this doesn't mean much. Lavarnway could have a >5% chance of sticking at catcher and Law would still comfortably put Lavarnway ahead of him.
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Posts: 1414
12/23/11 11:57 PM
80GradeMouth wrote:Chris I don't think it's just his bad statistics. It's that he seemed to take a major step backwards offensively despite being healthy all year. Downward trends in any aspect of a young players game that can't be explained by a temporary injury are incredibly disturbing. Perhaps you are correct in assuming that Iglesias' bat will improve enough to give him major league value. But you can't expect to stick in the majors if you make Nick Punto look like Babe Ruth, no matter how good your glove is.
Posts: 50
12/24/11 12:43 AM
80GradeMouth wrote: For me, dropping Iglesias outside of the Top 10 after a placement that everyone and their brother knew was ultra-agressive doesn't really like up and seems more like trying to fit a rank to cover for the bad statistics. He's going to be a valuable major leaguer and may end up having a longer career than multiple players in that Top 10 combined.When I think of Iglesias I wonder which way he'll go. I figure if he learns decent plate discipline over time, he could be like Omar Vizquel. People might forget but when Vizquel was in the majors at an early age, he was quite overmatched the first couple of years or so. Eventually, he learned plate discipline, get on base, and started swinging at better pitches, pinging enough singles to hit for a good batting average.Will Iglesias do that? Based off of last season, that doesn't look too promising, and if he makes the majors, then Cesar Izturis or Rey Ordonez could be a good comparison.Iglesias is only 21 and he was in Pawtucket at an age most players aren't, but he needs to show improvement in his plate discipline. To me, that will determine what kind of player he becomes - somebody who is an all-around above average SS, somebody whose glove keeps him holding a job for a little while, or a guy whose bat is so bad, the best he could be is Pokey Reese circa 2004 coming in for defensive purposes.From what I hear, he's coachable. Hopefully he'll take the advise of being patient at the plate and swinging at good pitches to heart.Chris I don't think it's just his bad statistics. It's that he seemed to take a major step backwards offensively despite being healthy all year. Downward trends in any aspect of a young players game that can't be explained by a temporary injury are incredibly disturbing. Perhaps you are correct in assuming that Iglesias' bat will improve enough to give him major league value. But you can't expect to stick in the majors if you make Nick Punto look like Babe Ruth, no matter how good your glove is.
For me, dropping Iglesias outside of the Top 10 after a placement that everyone and their brother knew was ultra-agressive doesn't really like up and seems more like trying to fit a rank to cover for the bad statistics. He's going to be a valuable major leaguer and may end up having a longer career than multiple players in that Top 10 combined.
Posts: 338
12/24/11 4:44 AM
80GradeMouth wrote:To this day most of you don't have a clue what I was talking about regarding the whole "Yale is an indicator of positive intangibles" argument so why bother. We discussed it to death and many of you still don't get it so WTFB. Just an observation but implying that those who disagree with you are stupid probably isn't the best way to convince people of your point of view, FWIW.
To this day most of you don't have a clue what I was talking about regarding the whole "Yale is an indicator of positive intangibles" argument so why bother. We discussed it to death and many of you still don't get it so WTFB.
Posts: 1473
12/24/11 5:43 AM
Boomerangs wrote:80GradeMouth wrote:To this day most of you don't have a clue what I was talking about regarding the whole "Yale is an indicator of positive intangibles" argument so why bother. We discussed it to death and many of you still don't get it so WTFB. Just an observation but implying that those who disagree with you are stupid probably isn't the best way to convince people of your point of view, FWIW.I never said "he went to Yale, so his intangibles therefore must be off the charts". That was a totally inaccurate interpretation of what I said. Extremely simplistic. I said it was an indicator. Not a determinant. There were several of you who didn't think it was an indicator at all. We disagree and yes for those of you who do not think it was an indicator at all, I think that perspective is ignorant. It's not like we didn't discuss it in enough depth for most people to understand it.
Posts: 1595
12/24/11 8:33 AM
Veteran Member
Posts: 3372
12/24/11 9:23 AM
Boomerangs wrote:I never said "he went to Yale, so his intangibles therefore must be off the charts". That was a totally inaccurate interpretation of what I said. Extremely simplistic. I said it was an indicator. Not a determinant. There were several of you who didn't think it was an indicator at all. We disagree and yes for those of you who do not think it was an indicator at all, I think that perspective is ignorant. It's not like we didn't discuss it in enough depth for most people to understand it.
Posts: 340
12/24/11 11:26 AM
Posts: 892
12/25/11 8:04 AM
“Outside the Red Sox organization, I never spoke to anyone who had faith in his bat,” Callis said. “His defense is special enough where if he could hit .260 or so he could help, but he just doesn’t do anything well enough — run well, steal bases, hit for average, hit for power, draw walks. If you’re looking at him as a .260 hitter, maybe he has an on-base percentage of close to .300 but I think that’s the upside.” “I haven’t given up on him as being an everyday shortstop in the big leagues because I think his defense is that good,” Callis said. “The guy he might be most similar to is Pokey Reese.”
Posts: 3375
12/25/11 9:09 AM
Posts: 2396
12/25/11 9:14 AM
With Swihart, Callis said comparisons to San Francisco’s Buster Posey are not fictional.
“I’m in no way saying he’ll be that good,” he said, “but if you look at his offensive tools and his athleticism, they’re the same that Buster had at this stage. They’re the same type of hitter.”
Posts: 1330
12/25/11 11:34 AM
Posts: 1132
12/25/11 12:06 PM
DonCaballero wrote:Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I remember that Posey wasn't considered much of a hitter coming out. Am I wrong?
Buster Posey is a strong lean athletic 6'1/180 RHP/SS from Leesburg, GA. Posey is already a polished four pitch pitcher with excellent athletic ability. He threw an effortless 90-92 mph with a sharp, deep slider, a power curveball and an effective fading change up. He’s one of the very top pitchers in the 2005 class. We've seen him up as high as 94 mph with very good command. He's also a highest level SS with his great arm, good hands and nice actions. He shows big time hitting ability also with surprising power. At the top college in the country he is a top player immediately. It will be interesting to see if MLB clubs will draft him early as a pitcher. He's got one of the very best arms in the country, but he's not the big RHP they normally draft early. Buster is an excellent student. He was selected to the AFLAC All American Team.
Listen, Theo phan-boyz, your crazy spin can't hide the fact that Terry Francoma is a TOTAL MORAN, John Lackey not only walks too many people but also rapes, kills, and then eats kittens, and JD Drew actually died 2 months ago and is only playing as a partially-reanimated corpse. - BriantheTaoist
Posts: 1331
12/25/11 12:49 PM
Posts: 290
12/26/11 4:14 AM
MaineSox wrote:Not sure if this is the proper place to put this, so if not feel free to move it, but the Red Sox top 15 prospect list is up at Fangraphs (Marc Hulet). 1. Xander Bogaerts 2. Will Middlebrooks 3. Garin Cecchini 4. Blake Swihart 5. Matt Barnes 6. Anthony Ranaudo 7. Jackie Bradley Jr. 8. Ryan Lavarnway 9. Henry Owens 10. Brandon Jacobs 11. Jose Iglesias 12. Bryce Brentz 13. Kolbrin Vitek 14. Junichi Tazawa 15. Miles Head Lots of good insight/opinions/information about the players too.
Posts: 12635
12/26/11 9:49 AM
Posts: 22
12/27/11 8:53 AM
Is there any evidence of this other than his triple-slash line? Are there scouting reports which indicate slowed bat speed or a loopy swing or inadequate plate coverage?
Posts: 887
12/27/11 11:40 AM
Matt HuegelAssociate EditorSoxProspects.com
80GradeMouth wrote:Is there any evidence of this other than his triple-slash line? Are there scouting reports which indicate slowed bat speed or a loopy swing or inadequate plate coverage?Jmei other than Callis' comments in the Globe there was the short discussion of him on the BP Podcast. Goldstein emphasized that Iglesias had, had a really down year. So bad that one scout called it "embarrassing". From everything I've read and heard during the off-season, he deserved that triple slash line and I haven't seen anything that would indicate otherwise.
While Iglesias’ stat line has been weak in Triple-A this season, the most important take is that the ability and skills are there to be a competent big league hitter. At 21 years old and inexperienced as a professional, he has a learning progression in front of him that comes through repetition. Iglesias has shown signs of beginning to build a professional approach and given his aptitude for the game I see him making good strides as he reaches his mid-20s. Seeing more pitches will push his pitch recognition as well. When laying in his plus batspeed and the way he is able to turn on balls while also covering the outer third when focused on not doing too much, he is going to be a hitter very capable of getting good wood on balls in a lot of spots. The hitch in regards to Iglesias’ offense is that at some point it is going to be very tough to keep him back because of his defense. He is major league ready defensively and after seeing him play the position over the course of this season, he can right now play an above-average major league shortstop. Whether his bat ends up being close enough to transition smoothly will be the question.
Posts: 30
12/27/11 1:25 PM
Posts: 529
12/28/11 12:06 AM
DCB26 wrote:Not that this really means anything and both players' discipline issues have been discussed ad nauseam but it's interesting that Iglesias' BB% in AAA was fractionally higher (5.4%) than Middlebrooks' in AA (5.3%)
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