BA Sox Top 10 in SoxProspects Discussion Forum

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BA Sox Top 10

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jmei		#21	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1413 12/22/11 12:13 PM Forum Moderator	Well put. I think your analysis is spot-on.
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Bury the Hammer		#22	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1590 12/22/11 1:51 PM Veteran Member	sarasoxer wrote: Bury the Hammer wrote: BorisMan wrote: BA is going to be very pissed that this list leaked out before it's due date of January 6th. It didn't "leak out", it's from their Prospect Handbook which is available right now. I doubt BA is naive enough in this day and age to think the info is going to get posted online by people who buy the book. I believe that the BA Prospect Handbook will be available in early February 2012 and is not currently available. I think that BA is slowly releasing, on a club by club basis, top 10 lists...probably because it is not finished with overall rankings and perhaps to stimulate interest in advance of release. Sorry, it's from the magazine, not the Handbook, whatever, point stands.
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beasleyrockah		#23	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 362 12/22/11 3:17 PM	Boomerangs wrote: gfur732 wrote: Boomerangs wrote: I have read before that some scouts have put Lavarnway in the same ballpark as Montero after last year. Maybe it was the same reporter but I have seen that comment before. You know, maybe some scouts might actually be right if we look at the numbers and consider that some guys like Keith Law now think Lavarnway will stick at catcher while also thinking that Montero will not. Age difference is the main differential between the 2 albeit a major one. Is that enough to consider one guy a top 10 prospect and the other maybe #300? What are you talking about? KLaw has never said he thinks Lavarnway will stay at catcher. As a matter of fact, he's been pretty vocal in stating the opposite. 3 or 4 months ago someone asked Klaw in a chat something like "Who sticks at catcher Lavarnway or Montero" and he said "Lavarnway". Possibly he said something different earlier as most pundits have but I believe the opinions in that department are turning. Possibly I'm wrong as I do not have the link now but I believe I read that in one of his recent chats. I'm fairly certain Klaw believes Montero has close to a 0% chance sticking at catcher, so this doesn't mean much. Lavarnway could have a >5% chance of sticking at catcher and Law would still comfortably put Lavarnway ahead of him. I think that statement is more of an indictment against Montero than praise for Lavarnway, of course you might disagree...
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norbit14		#24	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 4026 12/22/11 3:30 PM Veteran Member	I would say that the premise that Iglesias was going to be a serviceable hitter has been challenged, by himself. Am Dominican and you??
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qutennis5		#25	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 512 12/22/11 4:07 PM	Alex Gonzalez may not have been great shakes with the bat, but at least he had some pop and had 1yr with 23 HR's. Iglesias may have that FOR HIS CAREER. Until Iglesias proves to be competent at the plate i'm ok with being out of the Top 10.
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Curll84		#26	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1480 12/22/11 6:48 PM	qutennis5 wrote: Alex Gonzalez may not have been great shakes with the bat, but at least he had some pop and had 1yr with 23 HR's. Iglesias may have that FOR HIS CAREER. Until Iglesias proves to be competent at the plate i'm ok with being out of the Top 10. Yeah, fuck that guy with no power and stellar defense! [Obvy, Jose isn't that. But, still. Defense roxx at SS. Kid's super-young, MLB-ready glove, and will outperform Adam Dunn offensively.] LegendofJedLowrie.com \| RoyalRooters.com Last Edited By: Curll84 12/22/11 6:51 PM. Edited 1 time.
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Boomerangs		#27	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 332 12/22/11 8:34 PM	I'm fairly certain Klaw believes Montero has close to a 0% chance sticking at catcher, so this doesn't mean much. Lavarnway could have a >5% chance of sticking at catcher and Law would still comfortably put Lavarnway ahead of him. I think that statement is more of an indictment against Montero than praise for Lavarnway, of course you might disagree... I generally agree with the thrust of that statement. I do think it's more of an indictment of Montero overall as a catcher, as you do also apparently. I'm looking at Lavarnway as more of a 50/50 keeper at catcher though. Maybe not this year but he looks like a part time DH / part time catcher in the Victor Martinez mold to me. I'm pretty confident he sticks. With his bat he doesn't have to be anywhere near average defensively to stick as a part time catcher. If I had to trade between Salty and Lavarnway right now I'd take Lavarnway in a heartbeat in terms of long term value.
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chavopepe2		#28	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1870 12/22/11 10:09 PM Senior Forum Moderator	You would? Really? Total shocker.
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Boomerangs		#29	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 333 12/22/11 10:41 PM	The total shocker to me is that you guys lasted 3 - 4 days without unwarranted ridicule. That must be a new record for you.
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Bury the Hammer		#30	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1594 12/23/11 7:36 AM Veteran Member	What's the record for you not talking about Lavarnway, two consecutive posts?
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Boomerangs		#31	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 334 12/23/11 10:24 AM	I can't say anything about Lavarnway without it becoming a problem. The only reason I brought him up at all was to clarify Rangoon82's comment related to the boston.com projections. Professional sportswriters appear to have a similar view to mine. The guys who...eh...actually talk to the FO and players themselves, opposing managers and scouts daily. Gee, I must be an idiot to agree with them right. Is a 50% projection as a freaking back up catcher maybe not even this year all that outrageous? What are your projections about him? A 2% chance of sticking at catcher? Here is what I think: Many of you are sensitive about Lavarnway in general as the consensus was that he would never make it defensively. He's always been undervalued here IMO and recently the facts have indicated that your initial assessment was wrong. I don't go out of my way to discuss Lavarnway. My initial thread post was mainly about Iglesias whose omission was the real story in this BA top 10 thread.
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Cem21		#32	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3415 12/23/11 10:50 AM Chris Mellen Director of Scouting SoxProspects.com	Boomerangs wrote: Is a 50% projection as a freaking back up catcher maybe not even this year all that outrageous? What are your projections about him? A 2% chance of sticking at catcher? Here is what I think: Many of you are sensitive about Lavarnway in general as the consensus was that he would never make it defensively. He's always been undervalued here IMO and recently the facts have indicated that your initial assessment was wrong. Are you talking about on the message board or by the website? They are two entirely different things. If you are talking about the website, you are dead wrong in regards to what I have bolded. The website, SoxProspects.com, has always been more aggressive with its ranking and assessment of Lavarnway. You can look that up. In fact, it has been the "mainstream" people that have been catching up over the last 18 months or so. We've seen Lavarnway since he signed back in 2008. The assessment of his defense has always been that he's not a full-time catcher at the major league level and projects as a part-time catcher/DH. It is in his scouting report. Projects more as a DH/part-time catcher/bat off the bench at the major league level. You've pretty much been preaching about Lavarnway to the people who have championed him as a prospect since 2008 and were aggressive with him. I think that statement in bold about the initial assessment is highly inaccurate in regards to this website.
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jdb		#33	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 812 12/23/11 11:48 AM	Cem21 wrote: Bradley, Jr. seems like a big reach at number 10. Everyone else in that list is just ordering of perferance. Bradley, Jr. has some work to do with his approach and cutting down his swing against professional pitching. Im a South Carolina homer but I really think JBJ's approach is pretty good. He walked nearly as much as he K'd in college and most scouting reports had it being good. Im not a scout or anything and you know what to look for a lot more than I do but my only thing with JBJ is he extends the zone up and tries to do to much at times. I agree 100% that his swing gets long at times. Ive seen him play probably 100 times and I love the fact I get to follow him up the ranks. I really think a lot of posters will be surprised at how he produces and I hope we start him in High A. If Vitek starts there JBJ should.
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alongwayback7		#34	[url]	[-]
Posts: 767 12/23/11 12:42 PM Jon Meoli Senior Columnist SoxProspects.com	Boomerangs wrote: I can't say anything about Lavarnway without it becoming a problem. The only reason I brought him up at all was to clarify Rangoon82's comment related to the boston.com projections. Professional sportswriters appear to have a similar view to mine. The guys who...eh...actually talk to the FO and players themselves, opposing managers and scouts daily. Gee, I must be an idiot to agree with them right. Abraham has a lot more on his plate every day than talking to minor league catchers and scouts daily. You've come to the right place if that's what you're after, but don't look at him for it. If you actually want to know what the front office thinks, read Alex Speier, and even then take it with a grain of salt because the front office has an agenda as well. You can go a long way in not using Abraham to back up your opinions though, that's for sure.
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AielloSubmarine		#35	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 24 12/23/11 1:30 PM	Boom, your opinion on Lavarnway is pretty useless to the board (not that I want to speak for the board, just an observation) at this point. It doesn't mean that your opinion is wrong, it's just that: 1.The whole "he went to Yale, so his intangibles therefore must be off the charts" argument that you were pushing really damaged your credibility here, IMO. 2. Everyone knows you have a mancrush on him. No big deal. But we all know how you feel about him so you can stop beating it into the ground. It's time to sit back and see whether you are right about him or not. BTW, if he does go on to be everything that you say he is going to be, that isn't going to make you Nostradamus, either. I don't know why you think everybody here hates on him, just because they don't view his defense with the same rosy colored sunglasses that you do. Last Edited By: AielloSubmarine 12/23/11 4:09 PM. Edited 1 time.
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MaineSox		#36	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 92 12/23/11 3:03 PM	Not sure if this is the proper place to put this, so if not feel free to move it, but the Red Sox top 15 prospect list is up at Fangraphs (Marc Hulet). 1. Xander Bogaerts 2. Will Middlebrooks 3. Garin Cecchini 4. Blake Swihart 5. Matt Barnes 6. Anthony Ranaudo 7. Jackie Bradley Jr. 8. Ryan Lavarnway 9. Henry Owens 10. Brandon Jacobs 11. Jose Iglesias 12. Bryce Brentz 13. Kolbrin Vitek 14. Junichi Tazawa 15. Miles Head Lots of good insight/opinions/information about the players too.
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WC Sox Fan		#37	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 63 12/23/11 3:53 PM	http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/top-15-prospects-boston-red-sox/ Here is the link for fangraphs Your Signature ...
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Boomerangs		#38	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 335 12/23/11 3:56 PM	To this day most of you don't have a clue what I was talking about regarding the whole "Yale is an indicator of positive intangibles" argument so why bother. We discussed it to death and many of you still don't get it so WTFB. Lavarnway wasn't in the top 10 until late last summer. Say what you want but he has always been underated here IMO and still is. I'm not going for the Nostrodamus award. Even if I achieved it everyone here would crap all over giving it to me anyway. So be it. Who cares about some sort of recognition for an annonymous identity. The fangraphs and BA picks appear to rate tools and potential more than performance and I generally agree with that approach. The biggest factor should be "What are these guys worth if they actually do make it?" with "Can they make it?" secondary. Who cares if we develop a Navarro or Lin who probably end up as career minor leaguers or mlb subs. We should care a whole lot more about the guys like Swihart and Cecchini who are potentially all stars. We appear to be moving in that direction more and more. Middlebrooks, Bogaerts...etc. Every blog has it's approach and they have every right to select the one they want to use. That's fine. We all understand ours. It's good to have alternative approaches also though.
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80GradeMouth		#39	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 19 12/24/11 12:34 AM	To this day most of you don't have a clue what I was talking about regarding the whole "Yale is an indicator of positive intangibles" argument so why bother. We discussed it to death and many of you still don't get it so WTFB. Just an observation but implying that those who disagree with you are stupid probably isn't the best way to convince people of your point of view, FWIW.
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80GradeMouth		#40	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 20 12/24/11 12:46 AM	For me, dropping Iglesias outside of the Top 10 after a placement that everyone and their brother knew was ultra-agressive doesn't really like up and seems more like trying to fit a rank to cover for the bad statistics. He's going to be a valuable major leaguer and may end up having a longer career than multiple players in that Top 10 combined. Chris I don't think it's just his bad statistics. It's that he seemed to take a major step backwards offensively despite being healthy all year. Downward trends in any aspect of a young players game that can't be explained by a temporary injury are incredibly disturbing. Perhaps you are correct in assuming that Iglesias' bat will improve enough to give him major league value. But you can't expect to stick in the majors if you make Nick Punto look like Babe Ruth, no matter how good your glove is.
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