Sox Offseason (rumors) Thread in SoxProspects Discussion Forum

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Sox Offseason (rumors) Thread

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Yirmiyahu		#641	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3790 12/20/11 3:59 PM Forum Moderator	The real news is that he'll take a 1-year "pillow contract" to rebuild value. The rumors about which teams are "in" or "out" are always speculation/posturing/wishcasting, so I ignore that aspect of stuff anyway.
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J51		#642	[url]	[-]
Posts: 474 12/20/11 4:10 PM Jim Crowell Staff Writer SoxProspects.com	Oswalt is very intriguing. He has never been a huge strikeout pitcher (career K/9 of 7.5) but last year he missed fewer bats than ever with a 6.02 K/9. He normally has 3 good pitches with his FB, SL, and CB, but both the off-speed pitches were poor last year. It is hard to tell how much of this is due to his bad back and how much is due to the fact that he is 34 years old and thrown over 2,000 innings in his career. If he is looking for a 1 year deal to boost his value, he probably isn't looking to come to the AL East.
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DCB26		#643	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 23 12/20/11 4:40 PM	J51 wrote: Oswalt is very intriguing. He has never been a huge strikeout pitcher (career K/9 of 7.5) but last year he missed fewer bats than ever with a 6.02 K/9. He normally has 3 good pitches with his FB, SL, and CB, but both the off-speed pitches were poor last year. It is hard to tell how much of this is due to his bad back and how much is due to the fact that he is 34 years old and thrown over 2,000 innings in his career. If he is looking for a 1 year deal to boost his value, he probably isn't looking to come to the AL East. And the fastball dropped 1.2 mph in velocity from his previous career low. And that career low K/9 is despite getting batters to chase pitches outside the zone far more often than ever before. Still, he had a good year and his control still seems plus, I wonder if he's trying to re-invent himself a bit or if this is the start of a decline that's just going to get worse. Even if it's the latter, I still give him a shot if you can get him for 1 year.
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pedroiayouk1520		#644	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 191 12/20/11 7:42 PM	So what does the sequence of the rest of the offseason look like? I'm thinking the Sox have to go for a #4 SP next before seeing if Madson can drop in their lap. Oswalt's only suitors appears to be the Sox, Nationals, and Jays (he wants to win). Madson's only potential suitors are the Sox, Angels, and Reds. The possibility of a RHH RF has to be dealt with last. As for the order of the closer market (which is very important regarding Madson's potential availability), I would think that Cordero will sign first (2 x 6-7M-ish?), leaving only 2 suitors for Madson. If the Angels decide to sign Cordero, Madson is pretty much ours. However, if Cordero resigns with the Reds, I'd think that the Angels would have more cash to offer Madson. From the Sox standpoint, it probably makes the most sense to see how much a Roy Oswalt will cost and if its too much, trade for a young #4 and try to get Madson. If the Sox can afford Oswalt, then see if a trade for Bailey is doable. The interest in Cordero could be real, or it could be a bluff to get Madson.
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chavopepe2		#645	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1864 12/20/11 7:49 PM Senior Forum Moderator	Why do you think the Angels have more cash to offer Madson?
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LennSakata		#646	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 314 12/20/11 9:37 PM	pedroiayouk1520 wrote: So what does the sequence of the rest of the offseason look like? I'm thinking the Sox have to go for a #4 SP next before seeing if Madson can drop in their lap. Oswalt's only suitors appears to be the Sox, Nationals, and Jays (he wants to win). Madson's only potential suitors are the Sox, Angels, and Reds. The possibility of a RHH RF has to be dealt with last. I keep reading about Colorado and Oswalt having lots of mutual interest.
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pedroiayouk1520		#647	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 192 12/20/11 10:50 PM	chavopepe2 wrote: Why do you think the Angels have more cash to offer Madson? Nothing more than an assumption/guess and basing it on the fact that they had no problem spending over $300M this offseason and the Sox seem afraid to go over the 178 mark. Also, the Angels' roster is pretty much complete, so adding a quality closer would put the finishing touch on the roster that they plan to make playoff runs with over the next few years. The Sox probably wouldn't want to spend $ on a closer yet since they don't exactly have a complete starting rotation. If the Sox actually are willing to spend another $10M or so, would it make sense to sign a proven SP like Oswalt or a proven RP like Madson? I think you'd have to go with Oswalt, moving Bard to the pen because in that situation, both players have proven they can succeed in their roles. If the Sox choose to acquire a top reliever instead of a top SP, we are going to have not 1, but 2 unproven pitchers in the rotation (Aceves & Bard). Moving them both to the rotation would be a huge mistake because there is no way either will make it to 200 IP or be able to start come October. Pretty much, no team really needs a top closer unless the rest of the team can compete during innings 1-8. The Angels are set, the Sox are short in the rotation at this point. My guess is Cordero stays with the Reds and the Angels get Madson, unfortunately. However if the Sox can pull off a trade for a #4 SP and sign Madson for cheap, Cherington will look like a genius by waiting for the market to drop. Last Edited By: pedroiayouk1520 12/20/11 10:53 PM. Edited 1 time.
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TokenWilliams		#648	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1772 12/20/11 11:08 PM	The Sox are going to surprise some people at the end of free agency here. Letting the market come to them, posturing about the luxury tax line, etc. Oswalt will sign on a 1 year deal, they will end up with either Madson or Cordero and make a trade for Gio (hopefully around Iglesias and Ranaudo). All will be well in Red Sox nation again.
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Guidas		#649	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 2433 12/20/11 11:14 PM	But if they sign Oswalt and trade for Gio, Bard's gonna have gotten all ready for the prom and never had a chance to dance. Ditto Aceves. I think they get one or the other and would prefer the 1 year sign to hang onto the farm. Then the 5th starter goes to the winner of the competition between Bard, Aceves and your basic cheap "project" FA pick-up type(s) (i.e the Rich Harden/Scott Kazmir/MagicStemCellBoyoftheWeekClubGuy/et al type guys).
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jmei		#650	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1402 12/21/11 12:13 AM Forum Moderator	According to this interview, Bard wouldn't really mind being the closer, he just assumed they would re-sign Papelbon and didn't want to setup anymore. Aceves will still get his fair share of starts as the sixth starter. I think one of Floyd/Danks is much more likely than Gonzalez, since there seems to be much less trade chatter around them and they'll come cheaper in terms of prospects. Finally, this is just a hunch, but I could see E. Jackson falling to them and he has performed similar to Gio Gonzalez the last three years.
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beasleyrockah		#651	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 358 12/21/11 12:18 AM	Why do the Angels want Madson? Walden has a pretty good chance of being as good or better than Madson next season. There are multiple good setup arms to pick from, and after spending so much already why would they pay extra for the "proven closer" when they already have one?
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BosSportsFan		#652	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 91 12/21/11 8:58 AM	beasleyrockah wrote: Why do the Angels want Madson? Walden has a pretty good chance of being as good or better than Madson next season. There are multiple good setup arms to pick from, and after spending so much already why would they pay extra for the "proven closer" when they already have one? "Los Angeles would apparently like a veteran presence to help Jordan Walden* along.* " LINK "DiPoto re-stated, "We want to find someone who can complement Jordan Walden, not necessarily someone who can replace Jordan Walden." LINK
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Sibby Sisti		#653	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 638 12/21/11 9:26 AM	pedroiayouk1520 wrote: chavopepe2 wrote: Why do you think the Angels have more cash to offer Madson? Nothing more than an assumption/guess and basing it on the fact that they had no problem spending over $300M this offseason and the Sox seem afraid to go over the 178 mark. Also, the Angels' roster is pretty much complete, so adding a quality closer would put the finishing touch on the roster that they plan to make playoff runs with over the next few years. The Sox probably wouldn't want to spend $ on a closer yet since they don't exactly have a complete starting rotation. If the Sox actually are willing to spend another $10M or so, would it make sense to sign a proven SP like Oswalt or a proven RP like Madson? I think you'd have to go with Oswalt, moving Bard to the pen because in that situation, both players have proven they can succeed in their roles. If the Sox choose to acquire a top reliever instead of a top SP, we are going to have not 1, but 2 unproven pitchers in the rotation (Aceves & Bard). Moving them both to the rotation would be a huge mistake because there is no way either will make it to 200 IP or be able to start come October. Pretty much, no team really needs a top closer unless the rest of the team can compete during innings 1-8. The Angels are set, the Sox are short in the rotation at this point. My guess is Cordero stays with the Reds and the Angels get Madson, unfortunately. However if the Sox can pull off a trade for a #4 SP and sign Madson for cheap, Cherington will look like a genius by waiting for the market to drop. According to Bruce Levine of ESPNChicago.com, The Reds are close to a trade with the Cubs that would land them RP Sean Marshall. They may then not be so interested in Cordero.
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Justen		#654	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1129 12/21/11 10:21 AM	BosSportsFan wrote: beasleyrockah wrote: Why do the Angels want Madson? Walden has a pretty good chance of being as good or better than Madson next season. There are multiple good setup arms to pick from, and after spending so much already why would they pay extra for the "proven closer" when they already have one? "Los Angeles would apparently like a veteran presence to help Jordan Walden* along.* " LINK "DiPoto re-stated, "We want to find someone who can complement Jordan Walden, not necessarily someone who can replace Jordan Walden." LINK Why would Madsen sign there if he won't be able to close? I definately don't see this happening unless he's intrigued more by the chance of a championship with the Pujols addition. Listen, Theo phan-boyz, your crazy spin can't hide the fact that Terry Francoma is a TOTAL MORAN, John Lackey not only walks too many people but also rapes, kills, and then eats kittens, and JD Drew actually died 2 months ago and is only playing as a partially-reanimated corpse. - BriantheTaoist
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Yirmiyahu		#655	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3793 12/21/11 10:47 AM Forum Moderator	Justen wrote: Why would Madsen sign there if he won't be able to close? $$$$$$$$$$$ + World Series ring. See: Soriano, Rafael.
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Guidas		#656	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 2434 12/21/11 11:02 AM	Meanwhile, I know we've heard "Gio" all off season, which will take a load of prospects, but if the Sox are going to do that (and I'm not convinced they will), why not go after Masterson instead? Indians want to keep their payroll very, very low, and if the Sox are going to push Middlebrooks, Ranaudo and whomever out the door, why not try to get the guy you shouldn't have gotten rid of in the first place?
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Norm in Oregon		#657	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1765 12/21/11 1:11 PM Veteran Member	It's hard to imagine that they'll "push Middlebrooks... out the door". Their incumbent 3rd baseman isn't getting any younger, and injuries have started catching up with him. Why strip the system of an asset when that sort of value is longer as easy to come by given the changes in the CBA? I think teams will be pushed into taking a very careful look at their roster needs into the future. Talent might not cost as much since player agents won't have the same flexibility to push the limits. But the margins will be tighter and that should mean that cost controlled players will bring real benefits in the new environment. Those players give you budget predictability and flexibility over the longer term, and that really helps your planning horizon. Given that reality, some minor leaguers will be over-valued and as a GM you might want to take advantage of that. But I don't think that Will Middlebrooks fits into that category. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. ~ Frederick Douglass
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buffs44444		#658	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1959 12/21/11 1:34 PM	Trying to acquire A's left-hander Gio Gonzalez is the Nationals' top priority, according to a baseball source. The clubs are trying to work out a deal that would send four players to Oakland, and it is believed that Gonzalez will be traded soon. Two of the players the A's are looking at are right-hander Brad Peacock and catcher Derek Norris. The Nationals are not the only team looking to acquire Gonzalez. The Blue Jays and Red Sox are also heavily in the mix. mlb.com Not sure it makes much sense to be involved on Gonzalez (other than to drive up the price) when a 1-year bridge like Kuroda or Ozzie are available to get you to next year, and then a true front of the rotation starter like Hamels or Cain are available. Madness is like gravity....all you need is a little push.
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RedSox0407Champs		#659	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 42 12/21/11 1:50 PM	Guidas wrote: Meanwhile, I know we've heard "Gio" all off season, which will take a load of prospects, but if the Sox are going to do that (and I'm not convinced they will), why not go after Masterson instead? Indians want to keep their payroll very, very low, and if the Sox are going to push Middlebrooks, Ranaudo and whomever out the door, why not try to get the guy you shouldn't have gotten rid of in the first place? I'd be very surprised if Masterson was actually available. I had read that Theo had tried to reacquire him several times and was turned down. Now that Masterson has developed into a good pitcher, I doubt the Indians will be so quick to get rid of him. After all, what's the point of developing him as a starter in the majors and going through mediocrity if you're going to dump him so quickly after he does develop. Eventually, if Masterson stays a decent starter, the Indians will deal him, but I don't think it would be now. Maybe in 2013 or 2014. As far as Gio Gonzalez goes, I hope the Sox don't try to overpay for him. I don't like his BB/9 ratio, nor do I like the fact that he put up good numbers in Oakland. Fenway Park in the AL East is a totally different animal. I'd rather see the Sox go after Kuroda or Oswalt at this point (since Darvish isn't an option anymore).
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jmei		#660	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1407 12/21/11 2:45 PM Forum Moderator	Norm in Oregon wrote: Given that reality, some minor leaguers will be over-valued and as a GM you might want to take advantage of that. But I don't think that Will Middlebrooks fits into that category. I disagree. I think Middlebrooks is exactly the kind of player that GMs will overrate. Scouts will drool over him because he's athletic and incredibly toolsy. He plays a premium defensive position well, is age-advanced, and is close to the majors. His great numbers last year make it easier for GMs to overlook his steadily increasing strikeout and decreasing walk numbers. Unless he improves his plate discipline, he projects as a Brandon Inge-type player, but right now a lot of teams are probably willing to dream on him becoming a Longoria-type cornerstone player, which he is pretty unlikely to become. If we can get a good/elite starting pitcher with WMB as the centerpiece and some filler, I'd hope the Red Sox would strongly consider it.
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