What will the Red Sox rotation look like next year? in SoxProspects Discussion Forum

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What will the Red Sox rotation look like next year?

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MaineSox		#121	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 62 10/17/11 6:06 PM	Not in a 1 for 1 deal, but I wonder if the Angels would consider some kind of a Youk/Haren trade? Same amount of team control left (Haren is owed about $3mil more), and the Angels really need offense (particularly from 1B/3B).
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FenwayTheHardWay		#122	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 3202 10/17/11 6:13 PM Veteran Member	MaineSox wrote: Not in a 1 for 1 deal, but I wonder if the Angels would consider some kind of a Youk/Haren trade? Same amount of team control left (Haren is owed about $3mil more), and the Angels really need offense (particularly from 1B/3B). Sorry, Tony Reagins doesn't work there anymore. "thats 4 dingers tonite for #rays off wakefield, who looks his age, only older" - Jon Heyman
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sdiaz1		#123	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 28 10/17/11 6:33 PM	There is no way we are getting Dan Haren. The cost to get him is going to be silly expensive. I love Youk but Haren is simply more valuable, does not have an injury history, and is on a team with legitimate playoff hopes. From the Angels' perspective it is probably easier to improve their offense by getting a new DH, and by getting Wells and Mathis out of the lineup, than to replace your number 2 starter. Also we need to ask ourselves why we'd want to replace Youk with a third basemen like Wright who simply is not as good as Youk in every facet of the game and is owed more money? And though the cost to acquire Wright won't be that much, the players sent to the Mets still would likely be guys who have some level of value that must be considered.
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MaineSox		#124	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 63 10/17/11 6:51 PM	You're probably right that the Angels simply wouldn't consider trading Haren, but as far as the idea its self goes I recognize that Youkilis isn't as valuable as Haren, that's why I said not a 1 for 1 deal; I realize that the Sox would have to add additional pieces (and good ones) to make the value even. I don't see how the Angels are going to get Wells out of their lineup, and I never said anything about adding Wright to the team.
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sdiaz1		#125	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 30 10/17/11 7:28 PM	Sorry MaineSox, the Wright part of my comment was in regards to a comment made by nheck on the previous page. I should have made that clear. In regards to your Haren proposal, I misread your tone and thought that you were suggesting that a deal based around Youk would not need any real strong pieces in addition, but could be pulled off with more complimentary pieces like Reddick and Weiland.
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went9		#126	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 189 10/18/11 9:51 AM	Jim Callis looks into his 2015 crystal ball in a Baseball America Q&A. BA link; http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/ask-ba/2011/2612479.html
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DonCaballero		#127	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1267 10/18/11 1:58 PM	MaineSox wrote: Not in a 1 for 1 deal, but I wonder if the Angels would consider some kind of a Youk/Haren trade? Same amount of team control left (Haren is owed about $3mil more), and the Angels really need offense (particularly from 1B/3B). Just makes me wonder why the fuck they didn't beat the package the Angels offered for Haren. Tyler Skaggs was a terrific job of scouting by Zona, but also a fair bit of luck to see the improvements he's made since joining their system. We went out of our way to get a player we didn't actually need by trade (A-Gon, even though he's been awesome and everything, it's not like we couldn't have resigned Beltre or V-Mart), but since Beckett there's been no real trade for pitchers. And yet those continue to find success elsewhere. I sure as hell hope Theo learned the lesson and just come out trading the system for a guy with proven track record, like John Lackey.
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Boggs82		#128	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 85 10/18/11 9:34 PM	Why not go big? 1.Sabathia (Offer him what ever he wants) 2. Lester 3. Beckett 4. Buchholz 5. Darvish Bullpen Bard Weiland Aceves Wheeler Morales Doubront Jenks 1.Deal Youkilis for what ever we can get to clear his money and let Lowrie play 3rd. 2.Let Kalish and Reddick compete for RF, saving Drews money. 3.Don't sign a DH, give Lavarnway a chance and rotate bats in and out. 4. Suck it up and deal Lackey to the NL west along with one of OUR bigger prospects so we don't have to pay as much of his contract. Maybe one of Ranuado, Brentz, or Jacobs. Is this ideal? Nope, but trying to figure out how to improve the rotation and make it work financially. Last Edited By: Boggs82 10/18/11 9:38 PM. Edited 1 time.
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sdiaz1		#129	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 32 10/19/11 12:16 AM	Boggs82 wrote: Why not go big? 1.Sabathia (Offer him what ever he wants) 2. Lester 3. Beckett 4. Buchholz 5. Darvish 1.Deal Youkilis for what ever we can get to clear his money and let Lowrie play 3rd. 2.Let Kalish and Reddick compete for RF, saving Drews money. 3.Don't sign a DH, give Lavarnway a chance and rotate bats in and out. 4. Suck it up and deal Lackey to the NL west along with one of OUR bigger prospects so we don't have to pay as much of his contract. Maybe one of Ranuado, Brentz, or Jacobs. Is this ideal? Nope, but trying to figure out how to improve the rotation and make it work financially. The problem is that this does not work financially in any way: Sabathia will be opting out of deal which owes him 92 million dollars over the next 4 years. Looking at how the Yankees handled the Arod opt out gives me the impression that Sabathia will be looking not only to be extended past 2015, but also to be given a significant raise of about 25% more per year. That means we are looking at him conceivably getting a deal that is in the ballpark of 7 years 175 million dollars. Then in addition to that, you propose we also acquire Darvish. Lets Assume the posting fee will be at least 30 million dollars, and that afterward he signs a deal in the range of 5 years 40 million. That is more or less 250 million spent, to bolster a rotation that has Beckett (3/48/ 16aav), Lester (3/32 10.5 aav), Lackey (3/46 15aav), DiceK (1/10), and Bucholz (4/30 7.5aav). That means that over the next 3 seasons the Red Sox would have 83 million dollars a season invested each year in just the starting rotation. (This of course does count the posting fee, as that is not counted against the luxury tax, does not even try to guess what our luxury tax penalties would be, and does not include guys like Aceves, Miller, and whoever else will be our 6th and 7th starters). Half of MLB teams had entire rosters last season that was less than what your plan has us spending on our rotation. I understand that Boston has more resources than most teams, but this is not European football. I know that we are upset with how the season ended, but let's please try to keep our senses. Last Edited By: sdiaz1 10/19/11 12:21 AM. Edited 1 time.
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rodstero4		#130	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 172 10/19/11 3:57 AM	So, reading the posts, Lester, Buchholz, Beckett are generally considered the top 3, no? I agree with that much of it. Now, we're looking at the last two spots in the rotation. We still have Lackey and Dice on the roster, and while I don't think that Dice-K will be considered by the Sox as their fifth starter, I really don't believe Lackey gets traded. Basically, in my opinion, we're looking for a 4, 6, and 7 starter (Lackey being the 5th). All this assuming Wake does, in fact, retire. I wouldn't be shocked at Darvish, but I personally think the sox won't be his highest posting fee, and Wilson makes only a tiny bit of sense. So, my personal opinion: To be the 4th/5th starter the Sox sign Buehrle/Oswalt/Darvish. Then, as happens seemingly every year with the red sox, they sign a couple of Kazmir/Vasquez/Chris Young (possibly Kuroda) types to one-year deals. I hate to break it to everyone hoping for a huge overhaul, but that's the most likely scenario.
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Yirmiyahu		#131	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3537 10/19/11 10:30 AM Forum Moderator	Boggs82 wrote: Why not go big? 1.Sabathia (Offer him what ever he wants) 2. Lester 3. Beckett 4. Buchholz 5. Darvish Bullpen Bard Weiland Aceves Wheeler Morales Doubront Jenks 1.Deal Youkilis for what ever we can get to clear his money and let Lowrie play 3rd. 2.Let Kalish and Reddick compete for RF, saving Drews money. 3.Don't sign a DH, give Lavarnway a chance and rotate bats in and out. 4. Suck it up and deal Lackey to the NL west along with one of OUR bigger prospects so we don't have to pay as much of his contract. Maybe one of Ranuado, Brentz, or Jacobs. Is this ideal? Nope, but trying to figure out how to improve the rotation and make it work financially. I'm sorry, friend, but your proposal is silly. You want to throw $250M+ at two starting pitchers (the riskiest investment in the game). You want to pinch pennies at DH and RF. You want to sell low on Youk and Lackey and throw away a good prospect in order to facilitate that. This does not work financially or logically.
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Mhueg		#132	[url]	[-]
Posts: 805 10/19/11 4:54 PM Matt Huegel Senior Editor SoxProspects.com	Weei is reporting that the Padres have had discussions about acquiring Lackey. That would sure make a lot of sense for them (the only way they'd do it is if we ate most of salary, of course) and Lackey would probably excel in that park. http://www.weei.com/sport...vr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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Duffman545		#133	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1316 10/19/11 6:31 PM	Mhueg wrote: Weei is reporting that the Padres have had discussions about acquiring Lackey. That would sure make a lot of sense for them (the only way they'd do it is if we ate most of salary, of course) and Lackey would probably excel in that park. http://www.weei.com/sport...vr.it&utm_medium=twitter I feel like excel might be a bit of a stretch. . .
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buffs44444		#134	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1858 10/19/11 7:04 PM	Would rather have Lackey as the 5th starter than have $10-15M of dead money on the rolls for the next 3 years. I'm fairly confident we'll complete a deal with San Diego this winter, just not one including Lackey. Madness is like gravity....all you need is a little push.
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mredsox89		#135	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1618 10/19/11 7:20 PM	buffs44444 wrote: Would rather have Lackey as the 5th starter than have $10-15M of dead money on the rolls for the next 3 years. I'm fairly confident we'll complete a deal with San Diego this winter, just not one including Lackey. All about if the Sox believe he will truly be better than this past season. If he can post a WAR somewhere above 2 I think he's worth it to keep rather than holding that $15M of dead $. But at the level he pitched last year, not starting him probably helps a good amount. WAR has Wakefield at .8 and Lackey at 1.5 for last season, getting a guy like Buehrle who's been pretty much a consistent 4 WAR guy should make this team significantly better
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buffs44444		#136	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1859 10/19/11 7:37 PM	Believe me, you're preaching to the choir on Buerhle; he's the perfect 3rd or 4th starter in this rotation in my opinion. As far as Lackey, I think I'd be on board with shipping him out if we had a young Lester or young Buchholz in AAA banging on the door (I view Aceves a late inning reliever, due to his splits). Given that we'd not only have to pay for Lackey to pitch elsewhere but then also pay someone to come in and take his place, it almost becomes prohibitive to have him pitching anywhere else next year. Re-sign Pap, sign Buerhle, let Aceves be the set-up man and deal Bard in a package for Headley......it's all minor tweaks from there. Madness is like gravity....all you need is a little push.
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beasleyrockah		#137	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 222 10/19/11 7:41 PM	I'm hoping Buehrle re-signs in Chicago, which would make a John Danks trade even more probable.
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brent l		#138	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 44 10/20/11 10:18 AM	beasleyrockah wrote: I'm hoping Buehrle re-signs in Chicago, which would make a John Danks trade even more probable. Me 2! I love Danks an think he could thrive on this team. He did have a bit of a down year but hes still a solid #3 an better then Floyd. I have been a Danks fan for a while an Williams is a awful GM so we might be able to steal him. I think it wouldnt cost us much.
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brent l		#139	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 45 10/20/11 11:00 AM	buffs44444 wrote: Believe me, you're preaching to the choir on Buerhle; he's the perfect 3rd or 4th starter in this rotation in my opinion. As far as Lackey, I think I'd be on board with shipping him out if we had a young Lester or young Buchholz in AAA banging on the door (I view Aceves a late inning reliever, due to his splits). Given that we'd not only have to pay for Lackey to pitch elsewhere but then also pay someone to come in and take his place, it almost becomes prohibitive to have him pitching anywhere else next year. Re-sign Pap, sign Buerhle, let Aceves be the set-up man and deal Bard in a package for Headley......it's all minor tweaks from there. Sorry but I am not confident in Aceves as a setup man. I am assuming you have Youk being traded if you want Headly or Papi not re-signing an it doesnt matter no way I am trading Bard for Headly. Bard has the potentiel to be a stud closer an possibly a good SP ( I dont believe in him as a SP) an he is already a very good set up man. Headly is a solid player who could do better outside of petco, but power wise I am not sold on him being more then a 15 HR guy even outside of Petco but all in all if he can keep his avg up he is a good player who statically would look better at 2B. Padres have some good SP's an RP who intrigue me. Love to no if we could get a Tim Stauffer or Clayton Richards for a fair price. Luebuke would be a great get but I dont think they want to deal him wouldnt make sense unless it was for alot in return same with Latos. But I can deff see them adding a SP threw FA or a trade ( assuming it wouldnt cost them much money an prospect wise) an then trade Tim Stauffer or Clayton Richards (Richards may be more likely) an improve there team or minor league system that way.
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DonCaballero		#140	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1268 10/20/11 1:54 PM	brent l wrote: beasleyrockah wrote: I'm hoping Buehrle re-signs in Chicago, which would make a John Danks trade even more probable. Me 2! I love Danks an think he could thrive on this team. He did have a bit of a down year but hes still a solid #3 an better then Floyd. I have been a Danks fan for a while an Williams is a awful GM so we might be able to steal him. I think it wouldnt cost us much. Danks is every bit the asshole Lackey is. But he's a much, much better pitcher, so sign me in.
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What will the Red Sox rotation look like next year?