Compensation for Theo (and others) leaving for Cubs in SoxProspects Discussion Forum

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Compensation for Theo (and others) leaving for Cubs

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adiospaydro2005		#41	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 2304 10/15/11 8:47 AM Veteran Member	Bury the Hammer wrote: re: the Chicago guy's tweets: All that means is the Red Sox have forced the Cubs to join the battle in the media. LOL @ calling their "bluff." Explain to me the downside of this scenario: The Red Sox pay Theo 1.5m to basically do nothing for a year (if he's willing to be a consultant or whatever, great). They already have their new GM. They can move forward today if they had to. They don't even take a PR hit, all they have to say is the Cubs weren't willing to give up anything for the best GM in baseball who's still under contract. In the end, we get no compensation, which would've been what, cash or some shitty prospect? As far as they Cubs, I don't think I need to explain the downside for them. Lucchino has them by the balls. I also recall reading recently that Kaplan is an unbashed Cubs' fan which he readily admits. So I don't think there is much objective reporting with his tweets. Poorest spending of $3 million that I have ever seen.-fcastig 0220
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OCD SS		#42	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 857 10/15/11 9:19 AM Veteran Member	When your system is so poor every penny off the ground is extremely valuable. Asking that they give up anything feels like a huge percentage of their net worth, even if the ultimate talent is relatively little. *"I'd like to fck Sandra Bullock"** - Pedro, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.
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left coast bosox fan		#43	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 6568 10/15/11 9:34 AM Veteran Member	And if they give up the pennies, they've found the right man to get them shiny new pennies. "Watching Jose Iglesias take infield practice is like baseball porn" ,"Best defensive shortstop prospect I've ever seen." Keith Law
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adiospaydro2005		#44	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 2305 10/15/11 9:37 AM Veteran Member	OCD SS wrote: When your system is so poor every penny off the ground is extremely valuable. Asking that they give up anything feels like a huge percentage of their net worth, even if the ultimate talent is relatively little. I agree with you, but it seems like everyone is piling on the Cubs farm system which was actually ranked 16 by Baseball America earlier this year (Red Sox were ranked 17), which is before they had a very good draft and international signing period. The Cubs have a lot of talent in the lower level of their farm system, which is probably where the Red Sox are targeting for compensation for them signing Theo and others from the Red Sox baseball operations staff. Poorest spending of $3 million that I have ever seen.-fcastig 0220
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buffs44444		#45	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1851 10/15/11 9:48 AM	bigrock20 wrote: From a Chicago sportscaster. TIFWIW. thekapman David Kaplan Just spoke to a GREAT source on the Theo compensation talks. Red Sox are asking for an insane package of players. Cubs are saying no way. thekapman David Kaplan 2 MLB sources told me that Cubs should say no to any unreasonable request. Tell Boston your best offer if they say no then call their bluff thekapman David Kaplan Sources tell me that Cubs are prepared to be fair but will not give in to the Red Sox. We'll see who blinks. Theo's coming back and the Cubs lose again. Same as it ever was...... Madness is like gravity....all you need is a little push.
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gregblossersbelly		#46	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1312 10/15/11 10:03 AM Veteran Member	It's Lucchino's job to get as much compensation as possible. Why is the media giving him a hard time about getting it?
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left coast bosox fan		#47	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 6569 10/15/11 10:05 AM Veteran Member	So which respected GM candidate are the Cubs going to find if they don't pony up for Theo ? Whoever it is would be in a no win situation. "Watching Jose Iglesias take infield practice is like baseball porn" ,"Best defensive shortstop prospect I've ever seen." Keith Law
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left coast bosox fan		#48	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 6570 10/15/11 10:08 AM Veteran Member	gregblossersbelly wrote: It's Lucchino's job to get as much compensation as possible. Why is the media giving him a hard time about getting it? What particular media are you referring to ? The only 'hard time' I've seen are from ardent Cubs fans and local Cubs biased outlets. "Watching Jose Iglesias take infield practice is like baseball porn" ,"Best defensive shortstop prospect I've ever seen." Keith Law
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German RSN		#49	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 521 10/15/11 10:33 AM	I know the Cubs don't want to give up a player who is on their Major League roster but how about the following? To Cubs: Theo rights for David Ortiz (which should give them draft picks) Kyle Weiland or Felix Doubront To Red Sox: Matt Garza
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templeUsox		#50	[url]	[-]
Posts: 16881 10/15/11 10:59 AM Veteran Member Podcast Panelist	I don't think teams can assign the compensation rights of a pending FA to another team. And all I want is Brett Jackson anyway.
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Steve of Charlotte		#51	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 481 10/15/11 11:27 AM	Quite interesting that the Cubs think they have the upper hand. Probably won't happen, but Henry and Company can definitely play hard ball here. They will do it because the Cubs came after a man they still feel is very, very valuable to them. Theo is the one that built our little "nation". I found Henry's comment yesterday as enlightening: don't really care about the Cubs. He was mentioning who he felt for in this mess we are currently in. I actually felt a lot better about things when he decided to take on the media yesterday. The media in Boston is always looking to sensationalize any story line. I believe Theo is worth quite a bit, and the Cubbies need to pony up more than a B prospect. I am really glad we are playing "dirty", as they decided to dis-organize our organization somewhat. They gave Theo an out. They made the current situation more difficult. Theo is definitely, at least, worth Jackson. Settling for anything less is wrong. Last thing: we WILL be alright. We will come back real strong next year, but we still need to get rid of John Lackey.
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gregblossersbelly		#52	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1313 10/15/11 11:34 AM Veteran Member	left coast bosox fan wrote: gregblossersbelly wrote: It's Lucchino's job to get as much compensation as possible. Why is the media giving him a hard time about getting it? What particular media are you referring to ? The only 'hard time' I've seen are from ardent Cubs fans and local Cubs biased outlets. WEEI and WBZ-
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Plus Plus Intangibles		#53	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 308 10/15/11 11:45 AM	Steve of Charlotte wrote: Last thing: we WILL be alright. We will come back real strong next year, but we still need to get rid of John Lackey. That people want to ship out a third of the team over September and the following media soap opera has me baffled. Youkilis has been lumped in now by some over those Ellsbury comments from like, a year and a half ago. This team massively underachieved and still won 90 games. And my dream compensation scenario is basically Lackey for prospects. Any prospects. Actually, I'd be happy with nothing coming from the Cubs besides taking Lackey. Also, for the people upset if they only get money and no prospects, isn't that the whole point? Prospects are only valuable if they materialize and play for cheap, save $$$. It's all about the Benjamins.
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grkgodofwalks		#54	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 118 10/15/11 11:51 AM	Steve of Charlotte wrote: Quite interesting that the Cubs think they have the upper hand. Probably won't happen, but Henry and Company can definitely play hard ball here. They will do it because the Cubs came after a man they still feel is very, very valuable to them. Theo is the one that built our little "nation". I found Henry's comment yesterday as enlightening: don't really care about the Cubs. He was mentioning who he felt for in this mess we are currently in. I actually felt a lot better about things when he decided to take on the media yesterday. The media in Boston is always looking to sensationalize any story line. I believe Theo is worth quite a bit, and the Cubbies need to pony up more than a B prospect. I am really glad we are playing "dirty", as they decided to dis-organize our organization somewhat. They gave Theo an out. They made the current situation more difficult. Theo is definitely, at least, worth Jackson. Settling for anything less is wrong. Last thing: we WILL be alright. We will come back real strong next year, but we still need to get rid of John Lackey. That's the best response I've seen yet to be honest. I totally agree with this. The team won 90 games and made mistakes that can be corrected. Sure losing Theo Epstein and Tito Francona are going to sting, but they weren't going to be here forever. It's been 4 years since 2007, mistakes happened and will happen. Nay-sayers, Haters and general snobs are going to say what they want in the end. Change happens, deal with it.
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Nolson20		#55	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1002 10/15/11 1:03 PM	Plus Plus Intangibles wrote That people want to ship out a third of the team over September and the following media soap opera has me baffled. Youkilis has been lumped in now by some over those Ellsbury comments from like, a year and a half ago. This team massively underachieved and still won 90 games. And my dream compensation scenario is basically Lackey for prospects. Any prospects. Actually, I'd be happy with nothing coming from the Cubs besides taking Lackey. Also, for the people upset if they only get money and no prospects, isn't that the whole point? Prospects are only valuable if they materialize and play for cheap, save $$$. It's all about the Benjamins. I think Selig said he would axe any deal just to dump salary in regards to this situation. So we can't just unload Lackey.
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Plus Plus Intangibles		#56	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 309 10/15/11 1:28 PM	Nolson20 wrote: Plus Plus Intangibles wrote That people want to ship out a third of the team over September and the following media soap opera has me baffled. Youkilis has been lumped in now by some over those Ellsbury comments from like, a year and a half ago. This team massively underachieved and still won 90 games. And my dream compensation scenario is basically Lackey for prospects. Any prospects. Actually, I'd be happy with nothing coming from the Cubs besides taking Lackey. Also, for the people upset if they only get money and no prospects, isn't that the whole point? Prospects are only valuable if they materialize and play for cheap, save $$$. It's all about the Benjamins. I think Selig said he would axe any deal just to dump salary in regards to this situation. So we can't just unload Lackey. I didn't know this. Also, couldn't we just veil a salary dump under simply trading Lackey for crap? Why is taking on a bad contract for a GM so despicable? It's not like the integrity of the game is being compromised..
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sdiaz1		#57	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 24 10/15/11 1:51 PM	We need to just accept that no one is going to touch Lackey right now. He is owed 46 million, is shit, and carries baggage that makes fans dislike him. We would have to eat at least 75% of his remaining contract to move him, most likely not receiving much of value in return, while leaving our staff without a fifth starter. Our best bet to recoup value from him is to get his lazy ass in a crazy conditioning program, and hope and pray that this last year was the culmination of poor conditioning, personal issues affecting his performance, stress, and some bad luck his FIP and XFIP were a less shitty 4.70. If that can happen, we will have a worthwhile innings eater at the back end of the rotation, certainly a sizable waste of money, but better than dealing him just to eat most of the contract and not receive anything of value only to create an opening for Andrew Miller in the rotation.
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left coast bosox fan		#58	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 6571 10/15/11 1:56 PM Veteran Member	Kevin_Goldstein Kevin Goldstein Boston. Big time. RT @dclynch2: @Kevin_Goldstein Who has the leverage in the Theo discussions? Kevin_Goldstein Kevin Goldstein Look folks, I still think chances are OVERWHELMING (97.53492%) that the Theo deal gets done. Just going to be more difficult than expected. Kevin_Goldstein Kevin Goldstein Boston doesn't have to do shit. They have a GM, Cubs don't, and WS is next week. RT @Jbeck73: @Kevin_Goldstein They have to do a deal. 2 minutes ago "Watching Jose Iglesias take infield practice is like baseball porn" ,"Best defensive shortstop prospect I've ever seen." Keith Law Last Edited By: left coast bosox fan 10/15/11 2:04 PM. Edited 1 time.
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jmei		#59	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1269 10/15/11 4:51 PM Forum Moderator	I agree with sdiaz. Unless some opposing GM outthinks themselves into picking up a solid chunk of Lackey's contract or offers legitimate prospects in return, it makes more sense to keep Lackey than to cut him or eat most of his contract to trade him. He's bad but he's not as bad as he was on 2011. As recently as 2010, he posted 215 innings of 4.15 xFIP ball (totalling 4.1 WAR). His velocity has held steady and he's avoided major injuries. He doesn't have swing-and-miss stuff anymore and his command has declined but he was fairly unlucky in 2011 and will likely rebound in 2012.
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Yirmiyahu		#60	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3525 10/15/11 5:50 PM Forum Moderator	Nolson20 wrote: I think Selig said he would axe any deal just to dump salary in regards to this situation. So we can't just unload Lackey. I hadn't heard that before, and would love a link. But, anyway, if the Sox rejected an offer of cash and are pushing for prospects instead, it's clear they aren't interested in a salary dump. Not only that, with a rich organization like Boston, finite resources like prospects/talent are much more important than cash or salary relief.
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Compensation for Theo (and others) leaving for Cubs