Login
ForgotPassword?
Sign Up
Search this Topic:
Forum Jump
Posts: 64
09/30/11 9:37 AM
Interact
Posts: 2260
09/30/11 9:50 AM
Veteran Member
Posts: 5336
09/30/11 9:53 AM
left coast bosox fan wrote:My take on the group of tweets I've seen. There was a lot of clubhouse dissension lead by our 'leaders', guys like Beckett and Tek and Theo did not have Tito's back here. Squabbles about shit like buses. Henry canned Tito yesterday and the Tito's decision thing is gloss. Tito was not contacted by upper management/ownership during the entire slide. Not even texts.
Posts: 2261
09/30/11 10:12 AM
ancientsoxfogey wrote: left coast bosox fan wrote: My take on the group of tweets I've seen.There was a lot of clubhouse dissension lead by our 'leaders', guys like Beckett and Tek and Theo did not have Tito's back here. Squabbles about shit like buses.Henry canned Tito yesterday and the Tito's decision thing is gloss.Tito was not contacted by upper management/ownership during the entire slide. Not even texts.I have not been involved in studying any of the "reporting" of this, so I am totally ignorant of the background. However, one thing I've learned about reports in the electronic age is that opinions on the state of things are like you-know-what, everyone has one. Just asking: Could the truth of the matter be not exactly like anything that has been reported thus far? A theory: One thing we DO know is that Francona has had various physical ailments over his years here. The environment in Sports Boston may have had something to do with that. This year, for whatever reasons, there seem to have been "issues in the clubhouse," those issues seem to have predated the collapse, and for whatever reasons they went on, with Francona unwilling or unable to do anything about them. Maybe Francona was simply too worn out to do anything about them. And maybe, if Francona wasn't ready at this moment to step down, management did it for him, basically telling him, "Thanks for the years, but we think you really are at the end of your physical capabilities to deal with the cauldron here." A kind of mercy firing, if you will. Now the players who precipitated things, that is an entirely different issue with which management needs to deal. If I am all wet, it is perfectly fine for people to say so. I'd just like to think that after a successful run, it was simply circumstances of the passage of time and his condition that really did Francona in. One thing that getting older sensitizes you to: People can and do wear down, mentally and emotionally as well as physically, and at some point you can't handle the pressures of a situation, just like an old hitter who reaches the point where he can't get around on the fastball any more.
left coast bosox fan wrote: My take on the group of tweets I've seen.There was a lot of clubhouse dissension lead by our 'leaders', guys like Beckett and Tek and Theo did not have Tito's back here. Squabbles about shit like buses.Henry canned Tito yesterday and the Tito's decision thing is gloss.Tito was not contacted by upper management/ownership during the entire slide. Not even texts.
Posts: 189
09/30/11 10:15 AM
Posts: 3489
09/30/11 10:21 AM
Posts: 190
09/30/11 10:30 AM
Posts: 191
09/30/11 10:34 AM
http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/6839794/red-sox-third-baseman-kevin-youkilis-reflects-ups-downs-boston
Posts: 2262
Check out Tomase, Edes and McMullen over the last few days, as well as various player quotes over the last couple of weeks. I suspect that more will come out over the next few days. This appears to have a been a clubhouse divided. Also, go back and listen to yesterday's news conference with Theo and Tito.
Posts: 1242
Posts: 192
09/30/11 10:39 AM
Ellsbury is a 2007 alum and an MVP candidate, a magnificent player with the brightest future of them all. His teammates like and admire him, but he keeps to himself, confides only in Jed Lowrie.
Can you blame him? His teammate two or three lockers to his left continued, as recently as two months ago, to publicly question Ellsbury's decision to retreat to Arizona last summer for treatment for broken ribs. Kevin Youkilis has always been a hot button. On occasion, his intensity and his honesty were his biggest assets, but not this season. The injured Youkilis showed up every day the way he wanted Ellsbury to, but he turned so sour and cynical that his carping and insistence on inserting himself into other people's affairs turned him into a detriment.
Then we have Ortiz, who had a redemptive season on the diamond. He has long been credited for galvanizing the Latino players and justifiably so, but he didn't seem to grasp how damaging it was to publicly question whether Alfredo Aceves should be a starter instead of a reliever, and how it undermined both the manager and the general manager at a critical time of the year.
Francona was uncommonly candid in discussing his own concerns regarding the chemistry in his clubhouse.
"Ultimately you don't need a team that wants to go out to dinner together,'' he said, "but you need to have a team that wants to protect each other on the field and be fiercely loyal to each other off the field."
Jon Lester, another holdover from 2007, appeared to hold up his end of that bargain, for the most part. Francona and Epstein both lauded Papelbon for the strides he's made in mentoring some of the younger players.
But there is no better leader on the Red Sox than Pedroia, a whirlwind of energy and effort who delivered big hits, made plays in the field, and kept on fighting and imploring his teammates to do the same.
Posts: 3490
09/30/11 10:40 AM
Posts: 1611
09/30/11 10:44 AM
@LynchieWCVB: Sox ownership voted Francona out two weeks ago. Major objection: no sense of urgency in the clubhouse.
Posts: 1294
templeUsox wrote: PasadenaSox wrote: If this is, in fact, the end, it's a shame that he will be leaving under such a cloud.There's no other way people leave this team.
PasadenaSox wrote: If this is, in fact, the end, it's a shame that he will be leaving under such a cloud.
Posts: 30
09/30/11 10:49 AM
totheights wrote:Fantastic. Enough with this "player manager" bull, get someone in here who can make the tough decisions when tough decisions need to be make along with giving the chance the best opportunity to win rather than worry about a players feelings or not.You need Managers who can make the tuff decision I agree but you need a guy who cares about the players like tito does. He is great with the players I love that I think that is needed, dont want some tuff ass no one wants to be around an the players dont feel they can go to.
Posts: 5337
09/30/11 10:52 AM
canowhoopars wrote:I like the idea of Gabe Kapler if only because he could probably kick anyone's ass in that clubhouse.
Posts: 7
09/30/11 10:56 AM
Posts: 1295
09/30/11 10:58 AM
amfox1 wrote: As for who would be follow Tito, I assume it won't be someone currently in the organization. 4. (keep your friends close and your enemies closer) Dave Martinez, Tampa's bench coach5. (slam dunk success but can he be surgically removed from Ozzie Guillen) Joey Cora, Florida's new bench coach
Posts: 8
09/30/11 10:59 AM
GuapoGuapo wrote: amfox1 wrote: As for who would be follow Tito, I assume it won't be someone currently in the organization. 4. (keep your friends close and your enemies closer) Dave Martinez, Tampa's bench coach5. (slam dunk success but can he be surgically removed from Ozzie Guillen) Joey Cora, Florida's new bench coach Isn't the whole point of making a change, bringing in a fresh face/perspective to provide a clean reset? I would strongly lean against an internal candidate as well.I hear John Farrell, I think Joe Kerrigan. I hear Bobby Valentine, I facepalm ... that can get painful.A Martinez/Cora type seems like the best bet.(I really wish Henry would put an end to the whole theme of fighting battles through the press, trashing players, pointing fingers, etc. It's unprofessional and unhelpful.)
Posts: 2263
09/30/11 11:06 AM
Steve Dillard wrote: @LynchieWCVB: Sox ownership voted Francona out two weeks ago. Major objection: no sense of urgency in the clubhouse.Mike Lynch
Share This