The Red Sox 2009-2010 Offseason Discussion Thread

0 Points

Author	Comment
adiospaydro2005		#1201	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1544 11/30/09 5:19 AM Veteran Member	From yesterday's Baseball Prospectus.. The Angels are starting to look more and more like the likely landing spot of free-agent outfielder Jason Bay, unless the Mariners offer a four-year contract, which doesn't seem likely. http://www.baseballprospe...ticle.php?articleid=9806 Poorest spending of $3 million that I have ever seen.-fcastig 0220
Interact My Recent Posts
Nexus		#1202	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 339 11/30/09 10:20 AM	Globe: "There are two teams that would interest me, which are the Dodgers and Boston,'' Scutaro said. "I think it's no secret that I am going to be offered arbitration, because they want their draft [pick],'' said Scutaro, a Type A free agent. "There is still the possibility that I could accept arbitration and be with them for a year, but that's not the idea,'' he said. "The idea is to get a contract of at least two years.'' Again, I hope signing 34 year old type A Scutaro is somewhere around Plan S or T, but two years of a .750 OPS SS with a glove isn't the worst thing... as long as Bay and Wagner sign elsewhere.
Interact My Recent Posts
Nolson20		#1203	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 340 11/30/09 10:55 AM	adiospaydro2005 wrote: From yesterday's Baseball Prospectus.. The Angels are starting to look more and more like the likely landing spot of free-agent outfielder Jason Bay, unless the Mariners offer a four-year contract, which doesn't seem likely. http://www.baseballprospe...ticle.php?articleid=9806 Which I think coincides with this: Sox prefer Holliday?
Interact My Recent Posts
TokenWilliams		#1204	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 566 11/30/09 11:14 AM	I prefer Holliday as well, but let's all hope Theo doesn't get played and lose them both to the two biggest AL rivals the Yankees and Angels. How terrible would that be? Anyways, the next article after the Holliday one is about the Rockies keeping Spillsborghs. He'd seemingly be their 4th OF with Fowler, Gonzalez and Smith as the starters. Brad Hawpe would have to be moved. As someone that cannot stand Brad Hawpe I would be more than upset if he wound up in Boston, but it's tough to deny his production and he's the rare Rockie who's road numbers are pretty much equal to his home numbers. I think the Sox would prefer to get a RHH left fielder though so he may not be the ideal fit for them. As long as a deal isn't more than 2 years and they sign Holliday then I'm alright with Scutaro as the SS. Not thrilled, but ok with it. Sure his numbers have improved the last couple years, but it doesn't pass my "feel" test. It just doesn't "feel" right and I know people will rip me for that, but sometimes you have to trust your instincts.... Anyways, Orlando Cabrera is out there and maybe could be had for a 1 year deal. I'm well aware of the "reasons" the Sox let him go in the first place, but I'm also well aware that most of his old teamates are gone so it might be ok to bring him back. Bobby Crosby is another possibility if and only if Theo thinks he's healthy enough to regain his top defensive status he hasn't shown in a couple years.
Interact My Recent Posts
jdb		#1205	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 301 11/30/09 11:39 AM	I also prefer Holliday by a pretty big margin. Im not buying he cant hit in the AL. Its been a few pages but it has been talked about him changing his stance and once he threw that out the window his numbers shot up. I might be crazy but I think a healthy Lowrie will be better than Scutaro in 2010. I would be very leary of signing a 34 year old SS coming off a career year. Like Token said I would rather have an O Cab or even Adam Everett with hopes of Lowrie getting healthy.
Interact My Recent Posts
kingstephanos		#1206	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 7 11/30/09 3:07 PM	Nolson20 wrote: adiospaydro2005 wrote: From yesterday's Baseball Prospectus.. The Angels are starting to look more and more like the likely landing spot of free-agent outfielder Jason Bay, unless the Mariners offer a four-year contract, which doesn't seem likely. http://www.baseballprospe...ticle.php?articleid=9806 Which I think coincides with this: Sox prefer Holliday? The Red Sox may be in a better draft position by letting Jason Bay sign elsewhere and signing Holliday and Scutaro. Nolson has the link above; Rosenthal and Morosi suggesting that since Bay is one of the highest rated FAs, letting him go will in fact help Boston's draft status. link: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10357594 Makes sense from the Front Office stand point. With all things considered, if Holliday is slightly > Bay, why not let Bay go, sign Holliday and Scutaro (who then is only worth a 2nd round pick, but the lost 2nd pick is negated by the addition of a Supplemental pick from Bay signing to another team) and essentially stay in the same draft position and upgrade defensively at LF.
Interact My Recent Posts
chavopepe2		#1207	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1171 11/30/09 3:30 PM Josh Moderator SoxProspects Forum	Just throwing this out there, but does gaining an additional pick in one transaction really change the cost/benefit analysis in a second transaction? For instance, assume we resign Bay and then net a first and a supplemental for Wagner. Does that then make it more palatable or advantageous to sign Scutaro? I hear people throw around this type of scenario and I'm not sure it is an accurate or advantageous way to analyze a transaction. The determination of whether to sign a player should be made regardless of the other picks the team possesses. As has been brought up in the past, this team does not operate on a fixed draft budget. Because of that there is no reason to believe that having more picks diminishes the value of each individual pick as it might for a team operating on a budget. Again, this isn't directed at anyone individually. I've just seen scenarios like this come up quite a bit and I'm not sure it is accurate.
Interact My Recent Posts
buffs44444		#1208	[url]	[-]
Moderator Veteran Member Posts: 1415 11/30/09 3:47 PM	kingstephanos wrote: The Red Sox may be in a better draft position by letting Jason Bay sign elsewhere and signing Holliday and Scutaro. Nolson has the link above; Rosenthal and Morosi suggesting that since Bay is one of the highest rated FAs, letting him go will in fact help Boston's draft status. link: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10357594 Makes sense from the Front Office stand point. With all things considered, if Holliday is slightly > Bay, why not let Bay go, sign Holliday and Scutaro (who then is only worth a 2nd round pick, but the lost 2nd pick is negated by the addition of a Supplemental pick from Bay signing to another team) and essentially stay in the same draft position and upgrade defensively at LF. Regarding Holliday: I think you're correct that the defensive upgrade and draft pick compensation are a factor, as is most likely the age difference (if I recall correctly Holliday is 18 months younger than Jason) I'm not sold on the team forfeiting draft picks on Scutaro. That may change, as will a number of decisions, based on who is offered arbitration over the next ~24 hours, but there are several minuses (age, possibility of defensive/offensive regression, etc) that could potentially turn Scutaro into a different version of Julio Lugo (obviously, at a drastically reduced rate). Now, in the unlikely even that he's not offered arbitration, an offer would seem almost to be a given. But even a second round pick, I can't see the team offering it up that easily unless they've explored all other options in the trade market first. EDIT: Holliday is 16 months younger Madness is like gravity....all you need is a little push. Last Edited By: buffs44444 11/30/09 4:18 PM. Edited 1 time.
Interact My Recent Posts
SexyBanana		#1209	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1387 11/30/09 4:21 PM John Staff Writer SoxProspects.com	Just say NO to Scutaro, not worth the money, pick and commitment its going to take to get him. I'd rather take my chances with Jed than waste money on an aging shortstop coming off a career year. Holliday over Bay is something I have been advocating for a while, as long as the price is right.
Interact My Recent Posts
Archie Graham		#1210	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 3031 11/30/09 4:31 PM	Heyman's latest. Nothing much new on the Red Sox. http://sportsillustrated....overs.shakers/index.html He says that Kendry Morales was the person who influenced Chapman to switch agents.
Interact My Recent Posts
jsinger121		#1211	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15579 11/30/09 4:35 PM Jonathan Affiliate Correspondent SoxProspects.com	SexyBanana wrote: Just say NO to Scutaro, not worth the money, pick and commitment its going to take to get him. I'd rather take my chances with Jed than waste money on an aging shortstop coming off a career year. Holliday over Bay is something I have been advocating for a while, as long as the price is right. Absolutely agree. He is exactly everything I don't want in a player. Old, coming off a career year when he has been pretty mediocre his whole career, and a type A free agent. No thanks. Twitter: @Jonathan_Singer/@Soxprospects
Interact My Recent Posts
SoxSail		#1212	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 374 11/30/09 4:52 PM	jsinger121 wrote: SexyBanana wrote: Just say NO to Scutaro, not worth the money, pick and commitment its going to take to get him. I'd rather take my chances with Jed than waste money on an aging shortstop coming off a career year. Absolutely agree. He is exactly everything I don't want in a player. Old, coming off a career year when he has been pretty mediocre his whole career, and a type A free agent. No thanks. I disagree, but mostly because I think he'll end up costing us less (2 years, $14mil? and a second rounder after we sign Holliday.) What I really want to know is what better option there is out there? Hanley? Drew? Cabrera? Even finding replacement level at this position is getting hard, and I'm willing to overpay a bit to get more than that.
Interact My Recent Posts
Nexus		#1213	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 341 11/30/09 4:55 PM	Archie Graham wrote: Heyman's latest. Nothing much new on the Red Sox. http://sportsillustrated....overs.shakers/index.html He says that Kendry Morales was the person who influenced Chapman to switch agents. Favorite part: The Jays are interested in star prospect Casey Kelly from the Red Sox and big-time hitting prospect Jesus Montero from the Yankees in any Halladay deal. Obviously, they'd need to get pitching any such deal, as well, and the prime targets should be Clay Buchholz from Boston and Joba Chamberlain or Phil Hughes from the Yankees Dang it. If only Casey Kelly could pitch....
Interact My Recent Posts
FenwayTheHardWay		#1214	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 1672 11/30/09 5:07 PM Veteran Member	Toronto is clearly trying to squeeze one of Buchholz/Hughes/Chamberlain out of this deal, and I don't think they're going to succeed. Giving up a cheap, (semi) established MLB starter kills too much of the value of acquiring Halladay in the first place. "Jonathan Papelbon, not wasting any time, going to his bread and butter there, and that's the cheese."- Buck Martinez
Interact My Recent Posts
terry180123		#1215	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 111 11/30/09 5:30 PM	Toronto is using somebody here to drive up the price for the team they are interested. If I was the Red Sox I will go after Lackey and trade Buchholz for a bat like Hanley.
Interact My Recent Posts
Guidas		#1216	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 95 11/30/09 5:52 PM	With Heyman being a mouthpiece for Boras and all there is one component to be aware of here - if anyone BUT the Yanks and Sox sign Bay, I would expect the Yanks to go hard after Holliday to pull an addition via subtraction like they did with Teixera at best, and to drive up the price into the $100 mil range (IMHO Holliday is worth 5 years at $80 mil at best, and Sox should try to get him for only 4 years if they fail to re-sign Bay). I am sure Theo has considered all of this, but if they lose Bay to anyone but the Yankees it is quite possible that they will not get Holliday, either. Or put another way: when have the Sox ever outbid the Yankees on the open market? If this is the one case it occurs in recent memory, it shouldn't be; last year should've been that case.
Interact My Recent Posts
BringHanleyback2		#1217	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 232 11/30/09 6:14 PM	I think if the Sox sign Scutaro he will be a complete bust. I have no real argument it's just a gut feeling.
Interact My Recent Posts
Archie Graham		#1218	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 3032 11/30/09 6:50 PM	BringHanleyback2 wrote: I think if the Sox sign Scutaro he will be a complete bust. I have no real argument it's just a gut feeling. The argument you can use is that the Sox have never (that I can recall) signed a Scutaro type free agent for more than roughly $2.5 million, and ended up with a great deal. We win on the Bellhorn's at $500k, Ortiz's at $1.5 million, Mueller's at $2.5 million. We keep losing on the Lugo's at $9 million, Renteria's at $10 million, Brad Penny's at $5 million, Etc. It's one thing to add a $2.5 million Mueller to a great team. It's another thing to add a $7 million (+ a pick) Scutaro to a team that has this many issues. Theo needs to bring in elite talent and then add in the farm system + $3 million or less free agents/trades. Shortstops, Back End/Reclamation Starters, Swing Men, and Loyalty have become gigantic wastes of money every year for this team. I can't get behind Theo/Henry when they complain about the risk/cost of elite free agents, and then watch them spend $15 million a season on Scutaro/Penny type players. If Henry really wants to win more free agent battles, he's going to have to allocate some money away from the above positions in favor of elite talent, then trust that his farm system and lower cost signings will do just as good a job as a Scutaro/Penny would. I cannot believe we are even discussing Scutaro at 2/$14 million. Last Edited By: Archie Graham 11/30/09 10:38 PM. Edited 2 times.
Interact My Recent Posts
Bury the Hammer		#1219	[url]	[-]
Veteran Member Posts: 602 11/30/09 6:59 PM Veteran Member	Heyman is a clown. Learned all I needed to learn about him during the Keith Law/Cy Young voting controversy. That and he's constantly wrong with regards to the Red Sox (remember Jason Varitek catching Beckett in the playoffs?)
Interact My Recent Posts
albertpujolsin2012		#1220	[url]	[-]
Rookie Posts: 2 11/30/09 8:44 PM	Archie Graham wrote: BringHanleyback2 wrote: I think if the Sox sign Scutaro he will be a complete bust. I have no real argument it's just a gut feeling. The argument you can use is that the Sox have never (that I can recall) signed a Scutaro type free agent for more than roughly $2.5 million, and ended up with a great deal. We win on the Bellhorn's at $500k, Ortiz's at $1.5 million, Mueller's at $2.5 million. We keep losing on the Lugo's at $9 million, Renteria's at $10 million, Brad Penny's at $5 million, Etc. It's one thing to add a $2.5 million Mueller to a great team. It's another thing to add a $7 million (+ a pick) Scutaro to a team that has this many issues. Theo needs to bring in elite talent and then add in the farm system + $3 million or less free agents/trades. Shortstops, Back End/Reclamation Starters, Swing Men, and Loyalty are becoming gigantic wastes of money every year for this team. I can't get behind Theo/Henry when they complain about the risk/cost of elite free agents, and then watch them spend $15 million a season on Scutaro/Penny type players. If Henry really wants to win more free agent battles, he's going to have to allocate some money away from the above positions in favor of elite talent, then trust that his farm system and lower cost signings to do just as good a job as a Scutaro/Penny. I cannot believe we are even discussing Scutaro at 2/$14 million. Well said - if Theo and Henry were wise, they would be allocating dollars on the premier free agents following the 2010 and 2011 seasons and let Jed Lowrie take the job and run with it. There are some big-time free agents that are coming up following this season and the following season and that list is plentiful: Pujols, Fielder, Crawford, Lee, Cain not to mention Beckett, Papelbon and VMart. The Sox are in a fantastic position to allocate funding to the premier free agents that are coming available by combining the valuable resources that are either with the club or are on the brink of helping the big club that are cost-controlled (Lowrie, Buchholz, Bard, Bowden, Tazawa, and Reddick are examples with the big club) and allow some of the others to continue to develop (Kelly, Anderson, Kalish, Iglesias, and Exposito) who are a few years away while taking advantage of the retiring contracts that are coming up over the next few years (Drew, Varitek, Ortiz, Lowell). To make the "big splash" this off-season would be an over-reaction. But, getting one piece this off-season would be good and as I said earlier - Chone Figgins makes a lot of sense even if he is a Type A guy. Now is not the time to overreact on a Holliday or Bay.
Interact My Recent Posts

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

SoxProspects.com

The Red Sox 2009-2010 Offseason Discussion Thread