flap1919 wrote:But, wouldn't you really like to see him make it? Is there any doubt that he can hit?
Sibby Sisti wrote:
flap1919 wrote:Nava hasn't done much of anything past A-ball, because he hasn't had the opportunity. He came late to the organization from the Independenat League Chico Outlaws. Its not as though he was drafted out of college, did his 1/2 season in Lowell, then moved up through the system. And, please don't throw in Bubba Bell's stats in the California High Desert as an example.
Nava hasn't done much of anything past A-ball, he would be lucky to end up getting a September callup when he's 28. He was 6 years older than LIn in Hi-A that's like a colllege senior playing on a high school baseball team, you would hope he does well. Check out the guy I mentioned above http://www.soxprospects.com/players/bell-bubba.htm. He too lit up Hi-A, but he wasn't even as old as Nava, according to your projection he should be an All-star in the majors by now, but he isn't even starting in AAA.
Just keep an open mind about Danny. I'm sure you'd be happy if he launched a few at Fenway, whether it be at age 28 or 27. Lin could be on the same team.
You missed my next point than sibby because that's where most of Nava's stats have come from, Lancaster. The fact that Nava didn't make it to AA until he was 26 really isn't a great point. Should we celebrate the fact that he got cut from his college team or went undrafted multiple times. Is it possible that every single scout and organization missed something with this guy until the sox discovered him in independent ball, that could be the case. The bottom line there have been thousands of guys like Nava in the minor leagues before, he is at best a AAAA organizational type, that simply doesn't have me all that excited.
Lin has the potential to be a special player, his stats really aren't that bad considering his age and the level he's playing at. If Lin had moved to America after graduating high school and gone to college he would be a junior right now, and likely a high 1st round pick come next June. If we drafted this guy in June he would easily be pegged as the next great thing because he would easily hit 300 and post a 1000 OPS in Lowell. Instead, he'll be putting up decent (but not awe inspiring) stats 3 levels above Lowell, and that is statistically signifcant because he's only a year or two from the majors and he's been 21 for 3 months. Would anyone be impressed if Lin put up a 300/400/600 line in Lowell next summer at this point in his career, would that make him a better prospect to dominate at a level he doesn't belong at anymore.
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Catch-all Offseason Rankings - Red Sox
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 Sibby Sisti |
#121 | |||||||||||||||
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Posts: 292 11/17/09 10:16 PM |
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flap1919 |
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Posts: 3038 11/17/09 10:27 PM |
Yes, there is a lot of doubt that he can hit in AAA. I'm not convinced he can consistently hit in AA, because he hasn't yet. You guys are allowed to
have personal feelings about certain players, it doesn't make them great prospects. He's got AAAA written all over him, that's pretty good for an
undrafted guy, I hope he gets a September callup someday and an AB or two, beyond that, I'll pass.
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Boomerangs |
Nava | #123 | ||||||||||||||
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Posts: 31 11/18/09 12:50 AM |
When they signed Nava, do you think they were projecting him as a career .345 hitter in the minors, with an OBP around .445 and an OPS around .980. His minor
league record so far is better than virtually any other minor league player in baseball. He has done everything they have asked from him. If what he has done
is not good enough to earn a shot at the majors soon, what level of performance would be good enough? Why sign him in the first place then? Wade Boggs spent 2
entire years in AA ball and 2 entire years in AAA ball before getting his shot in the majors at all. He promptly hit .349 and was ROY. Do you think they maybe
could have called him up 2 years earlier? Boggs wasn't toolsy either. The guys who can just hit for average and OBP, and only hit for average and OBP,
often have to work twice as hard to get a chance in the majors. It's not unusual for them to be top players though when they do get that chance.
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Boomerangs |
Nava | #124 | ||||||||||||||
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Posts: 32 11/18/09 12:54 AM |
Yeah there is so much doubt that Nava will be able to hit in AAA, but Lin will probably tear them up next year in AA ball huh. What does this guy need to do to
earn some respect? What logic indicates that Nava will not continue to hit well? AA ball isn't that much different than AAA ball. There is no reason to
expect Nava to hit under .300 next year. No reason at all.
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Yirmiyahu |
#125 | |||||||||||||||
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Posts: 598 11/18/09 1:07 AM |
One reason to believe that he might not hit well in AAA: he'll be turning 27 in a couple of months and only has 144 PA's above A-ball. And to answer
your other question, I think he deserves a little respect as soon as he puts up a full-season 1.000 OPS in AAA.
I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't think you understand how important age and competition level are. If Lin were put in Greenville next year (his age appropriate level), and put up a .900 OPS, would your opinion of him change? And if Nava were put on the MLB roster next year (his age appropriate level), and looked painfully clueless, would your opinion of him change? Mine wouldn't. |
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JohnnyMac |
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Posts: 4 11/18/09 1:56 AM |
Boomerangs wrote:2009:
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Boomerangs |
Nava | #127 | ||||||||||||||
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Posts: 33 11/18/09 1:57 AM |
I'm aware he will be 27 next year. I do understand that he is old for a minor leaguer at any level. I also know that, given his statistical performance
level so far, he is a lot more likely to have an OPS of 1000 in AAA ball than Lin is of having an OPS of 900 even if he got demoted to Greenville. In the last
4 years Nava has averaged over a 1000 OPS ( including the independent league ).
Lin's OPS: 2007 GCL = .787 2007 Lowell = .475 2008 Greenville = .701 2009 Salem = .717 I'm fully aware that Nava may never make it at the major league level as a starting player over the course of even a single full season. At the same time, history has shown quite a few players who have slipped through the cracks early on only to emerge as great players later ( Johan Santana, Mike Piazza...etc ). Nava deserves a shot and hopefully he will be given a sincere shot at the majors. |
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Boomerangs |
AA ball vs AAA ball | #128 | ||||||||||||||
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Posts: 34 11/18/09 2:05 AM |
I think I could cite quite a few players who have actually done better in AAA ball as compared to AA ball. Citing 3 guys is not a big insight here. How about
Hanley Ramirez and many others ( like Elvis Andrus just this past year ) jumping from AA ball directly to succeeding in the majors. The point is that Nava
could start off well next year in AAA ball and get a call up in 100-200 AB. It is not that different intrinsically. A little more control from the pitchers and
of course they are generally better and more experienced but the stuff is similar. If Nava can hit that well in AA ball he is highly likely to hit well in AAA
ball.
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TheGoldenGreek33 |
#129 | |||||||||||||||
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Posts: 3285 11/18/09 2:31 AM Veteran Member |
Yeah, I can totally see the comparisons between Hanley and Nava...
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Lippa91 |
#130 | |||||||||||||||
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Posts: 1961 11/18/09 2:33 AM
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Alright, this ends here. There is absolutely nothing productive happening in the Lin vs Nava debate. Everybody let it go or posts will start to be deleted.
"There's a reason why you wear this Red Sox uniform. Because
you're a bad mother#@%&$." -- David Ortiz
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left coast bosox fan |
#131 | |||||||||||||||
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Posts: 3443 11/18/09 5:36 AM Veteran Member |
Reel 'em in Boomer...
"According to Elias, Wang's ERA of 21.60 as a starter is the
worst ERA for the first 5 starts in the history of baseball." ... YES Network 6/11/2009
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 Cem21 |
#132 | |||||||||||||||
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Posts: 2476 11/18/09 8:25 AM Chris Mellen Director of Scouting SoxProspects.com |
27 Stolmy Pimentel RHP Began year w/ very good CB, finished w/ outstanding -- we heard a Zito comp for the pitch I pulled that from the Project Prospect position rankings that Mr. Hatfield posted a few pages back. Pimentel came in at #27 in the Honorable Mentions on their pitching list. Information was kind of sparse on Pimentel this season. I didn't see much out there or talk to many people who got a chance to see him so that caught my eye in regards to his curve. Pimentel hit a little bit of a wall toward the end of the season and the home run balls started to bite him, but he handled himself pretty well with Greenville last season as one of the younger guys there. I do know that he was working a lot on his fastball this season so the bit about his curve ticking up is a good sign as well. With a change that has been graded as plus and I believe rated as the best in system by BA entering last season, he's developing a well-rounded arsenal of above-average pitches. |
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raftsox |
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Posts: 1415 11/18/09 10:20 AM |
If Stolmy can build up his stamina and perform consistently well throughout an entire season he could easily work his way into top 100 status. I'm
personally a big fan of his.
Another pitcher I'm very high on is Drake Britton. Mid-90s with a +CB. I think we'll all be very impressed with him after next season, I'll be curious to see how they limit his workload.
I am speechless. ...this site is not intended to be a place where you post every ridiculous and half-formed thought that comes into your head.
... You should post less. - AMarshal2
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KillerB |
#134 | |||||||||||||||
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Posts: 13 11/18/09 12:47 PM |
raftsox wrote: Completely agree - I think Britton's got the stuff to have a big breakout season next year. |
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SoxSail |
#135 | |||||||||||||||
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Posts: 336 11/18/09 4:08 PM |
From the RS' BP top 15, there's this about Lars' defense:
He plays a good first base and runs well for his size, and he's athletic enough that some wonder if he could handle left field.I was surprised to see that about him, especially considering that in "The Bad" section, KG mentioned that Lars seemed stiff at times. If he has potential as a LFer, I think the Sox should get him out there if there are any struggles. Maybe having something else to work on besides hitting would get him back in a groove. |
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El Kato |
#136 | |||||||||||||||
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Rookie
Posts: 31 11/18/09 4:10 PM |
From Jim Callis chat:
Nick (Washington Dc)Hi Jim, love your work. Can you give a quick 2-3 sentence scouting report of Stolmy Pimentel? Other than having a great name, what's to like? Jim Callis(2:41 PM)19-year-old righthander, advanced beyond his years. Fastball, curveball, changeup all show potential to be solid or better. |
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raftsox |
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Posts: 1418 11/18/09 9:51 PM |
KillerB wrote:I'd agree if I didn't think they were going to baby him. He's got a chance to start in Greenville, but if he does it's only for 3 or so innings. 2011 is much more likely to be his breakout year.
I am speechless. ...this site is not intended to be a place where you post every ridiculous and half-formed thought that comes into your head.
... You should post less. - AMarshal2
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WillyCoPapi3 |
#138 | |||||||||||||||
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Posts: 3930 11/19/09 2:03 AM Veteran Member |
Why would the Red Sox baby him? He'll be over a year and a half removed from surgery at the start of next season, so there's no reason why they'd
have him on a 3-inning cap for each start. The only "babying" I see them doing is having him skip starts (or possibly attending XST) so that they can
limit him from having a significant increase in innings next season.
edit: The only time I can recall the Red Sox giving a pitcher a ~3 inning cap per game is for a draftee or when he's first coming off of injury (ala Hagadone).
Why would we ever PH for Varitek? I mean, what if we PH for him, and it goes to extras, and vic martinez gets eaten by
dinosaurs? We'd have to use the emergency catcher.
-FenwayTheHardWay |
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raftsox |
#139 | |||||||||||||||
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Posts: 1421 11/19/09 8:55 AM |
WillyCoPapi3 wrote:I doubt they'd just let him go out there and throw as many innings per start as his performance warrants. He'll probably be part of a piggy-back tandem for the season. 100-120 innings.
I am speechless. ...this site is not intended to be a place where you post every ridiculous and half-formed thought that comes into your head.
... You should post less. - AMarshal2
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WillyCoPapi3 |
#140 | |||||||||||||||
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Posts: 3932 11/19/09 12:27 PM Veteran Member |
And I didn't say that either. He'll probably throw 4-5 innings a start like most Red Sox pitchers at the lower levels, and like you said he'll
probably have someone piggyback him for much or all of the season.
Why would we ever PH for Varitek? I mean, what if we PH for him, and it goes to extras, and vic martinez gets eaten by
dinosaurs? We'd have to use the emergency catcher.
-FenwayTheHardWay |
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