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basestealer21 |
#41 | |||
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Back injuries don't heal after you've sat out for about a month. A bad back lingers until you have sufficient time to rest and strengthen your back and
I think thats the reason everybody thought he looked stiff. Also, after a back injury it becomes a mental thing that hinders you just like Papi and Kalish with
the wrists. I don't think he should have been ranked ahead of any of the players on there it was just the analysis they gave of him that irked me a little
bit.
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Nexus |
#42 | |||
basestealer21 wrote:Like Cem said, if this were indeed the case, the Sox would have gone the precautionary route and simply given Anderson's back some time off. There's no sense in rushing him along hoping he can play through pain at age 21 in AA. |
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Guidas |
#43 | |||
amfox1 wrote:Completely agree. Only way I package Buchholz is if Sox got King Felix, Greinke, Verlander, or Lincecum coming back. And as doubtful as I think a KF deal is this off season, those other three are about as likely as a UFO landing in your lap. Today. As you're discussing world affairs with PeeWee Herman while sharing a brie platter at The Cask n Flagon. |
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raftsox |
#44 | |||
tdrowe wrote:Reddick might be rated higher because he projects to stay in center, while Kalish is likely bound for a corner spot.
I am speechless. ...this site is not intended to be a place where you post every ridiculous and half-formed thought that comes into your head.
... You should post less. - AMarshal2
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willfulmurder |
#45 | |||
Guidas wrote: I think, realistically, it would take considerably more talent to get those players, especially Gonzalez. The price tag for Gonzalez would likely be something in the realm of Ellsbury/Kelly/Kotchman/Pimental. The price tag for Halladay would likely be something in the realm of Buchholz/Anderson/Delcarmen/Kalish. This is all hypothetical, of course, but those players will cost the moon. I'm also not suggesting making either of those deals... But, depending on Boston's decision making process, and their aggressiveness this off-season, I could see them trading some veterans for prospects (while eating salary) to use in deals for those players. I could even see them evaluating Halladay ahead of Beckett, and swapping Beckett to, say, the Dodgers (I know their ownership situation is a mess) or Phillies for a package like Billingsley/Loney or Hamels/D. Brown, and then moving those players on in a Halladay/Gonzalez deal. It certainly is fun to speculate, but I think the price tag (especially for a cost-controlled Gonzalez) will be huge. |
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raftsox |
#46 | |||
Nexus wrote: But how honest was Lars with the team? It's very hard to quantify a back injury. I'm not saying that he was definitely injured all year, but he might have told them "Yeah, I'm fine, I'm just not seeing the ball well right now." when his back could have actually been a little tight.
I am speechless. ...this site is not intended to be a place where you post every ridiculous and half-formed thought that comes into your head.
... You should post less. - AMarshal2
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Guidas |
#47 | |||
willfulmurder wrote:That's why I said "package" - I'm not talk radio enough to think you could ever get any of those guys for Buchholz straight up. I think for any of those it would take Buchholz and 3 of the Sox top 6 prospects, minimum. |
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willfulmurder |
#48 | |||
Guidas wrote:Sorry... I wasn't suggesting that you thought a Buchholz straight-up deal would land one of those players. My response was to the Kelly/Reddick/B prospect proposal. Any deal for Halladay or Gonzalez will hurt... a lot... certainly more than that. |
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PrahaSMC |
#49 | |||
amfox1 wrote:I don't think that's nearly enough, which is why I'm inclined to believe the team has to resort to free agency to fill its holes. Holliday makes a ton of sense, because you net a draft pick and replace Bay with a younger, more complete player. I also think Adrian Beltre represents a major upgrade over Mike Lowell, with no obvious internal replacement coming in the forseeable future. On the topic of BPs top-15, I think these lists tend to be a little too volatile year to year. If Lars Anderson drops from a top-25 prospect in all of baseball to the ninth best prospect in a Red Sox system that probably ranks in the low teens overall, then either the initial evaluation was wrong or there is too much emphasis being placed on last season (or perhaps even somewhere in between). It is difficult for me to believe that his stock can drop so precipitously at such a young age. "This Kenny Mauer should go home to his wife... because nobody here loves him." - Tommy Heinsohn |
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willfulmurder |
#50 | |||
PrahaSMC wrote:I think that there are ways for Boston to be creative and improve itself outside of Free Agency. They have some very powerful factors in their favor, including (nearly) unlimited resources, flexible payroll, and some intriguing prospects. They can eat a lot of bad money (either their own, or someone else's)... and that opens a lot of doors. People say that Vermin Wells has an unmovable contract... and so it is if you are talking two teams. But, if you add in a third or even fourth team, things become possible. Boston gets Roy Halladay and ships out prospects to the Jays and $25 million dollars to the Cubs, who get Wells and ship Milton Bradley to the Blue Jays, who pay half of Wells remaining salary, etc... it's just dead money anyway. A team like Boston can absorb some of that dead money for the right price in personnel. The deal is undoubtedly labyrinthine, requires MLB approval, and has a ton of moving parts, but it's possible. If I were Bud Selig, I would consider this sort of deal an extension of the Luxury Tax, and let it through. Regarding free agency, it's my opinion that if you're going to give up your first pick for a Type-A free agent, sign a couple of them... like Holliday and Lackey and Adrien Beltre. That would screw the Angels out of a first round pick for the player, since you've already given your's up to the Cards for Holliday, etc... then Bay's signing kicks in and you get that team's first round pick, which I don't believe is transferable. Just hit the signability picks in the later rounds. Westmoreland was a fifth-rounder, Lars an 18th rounder, so Boston can get away with those sorts of moves. |
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Bury the Hammer |
#51 | |||
willfulmurder wrote: I sure hope you're right, because I would do that yesterday. |
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SoxSail |
#52 | |||
willfulmurder wrote:People need to only quote what's relevant. If one is referring to something twelve (or two) quotes deep, then get rid of the extraneous stuff. The price tag for Gonzalez would likely be something in the realm of Ellsbury/Kelly/Kotchman/Pimental.And I agree with BuryTH. I would do the above in a heartbeat. |
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willfulmurder |
#53 | |||
SoxSail wrote:only quoting what's relevant here yes, upon review, my proposal is light. we'd need to take back a bad contract and probably throw in bard instead of pimental.
Last Edited By: willfulmurder 11/13/09 6:52 PM.
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basestealer21 |
#54 | |||
raftsox wrote: Back injuries are a lot harder to quantify as well. I'm just saying that hopefully after a long while to rest and get his bearings back he might still be a decent prospect and not a bust or stiff player who can't get his bat on the ball. |
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WillyCoPapi3 |
#55 | |||
left coast bosox fan wrote: Not when there's enough reason to believe he's clearly the system's #1 prospect. And to answer your question FTHW, back problems may sometimes be nagging as opposed to chronic. I had a year where I went from a pulled back, to back spasms, then back spasms again. Once I finally was able to get rest, my back was fine and I haven't had any more problems. So while I have no idea what the details are in Lars' case, just because a 21-year old had back issues all year doesn't guarantee that it's a chronic issue.
Why would we ever PH for Varitek? I mean, what if we PH for him, and it goes to extras, and vic martinez gets eaten by
dinosaurs? We'd have to use the emergency catcher.
-FenwayTheHardWay |
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Boomerangs |
BP Top 15 | #56 | ||
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I do not get Lin being rated this high. He has been in the system for a while now and has never hit higher than .269 and with little power. In 3 years now. He
just isn't putting up sufficient offensive numbers to warrant being in the top 40, let alone the top 15. He must be incredible defensively because he is
not an exciting prospect offensively. He's still in A ball isn't he and he still hasn't hit above .269? What am I not seeing? I've seen lots of
guys tear it up down in A ball, only to falter later. Lin appears to be consistently faltering in A ball. I'm not buying it.
I think we may be in for Iglesias to rise fast in the system though. He looks for real to me and there is a slot open for him with the big club. He should be a top 5 guy for sure to me, at least from what I've seen so far. If it were my call, he would be #1 right now. Westmoreland and Kelly look like great prospects but they are still in A ball also. Lot's of guys look great in A ball. For example, Lars Anderson. Let's see where they stand in 2 years before anointing them as our top prospects. Westmoreland especially looks for real to me though. Tazawa doesn't get enough cred either. He was outstanding last year in his first year of pro ball. It was interesting that Rizzo was rated over Anderson for once. Is it just me, or does this look like a cursory understanding of our farm. It just doesn't look like in depth analysis to me ( BP has a good rep but I'm not seeing the quality from this top 15 list ). |
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Boomerangs |
#57 | |||
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Gibson has some tools and I was surprised he wasn't ranked higher earlier but he wasn't getting promoted either so obviously he needed the work.
Last Edited By: Boomerangs 11/13/09 9:44 PM.
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chavopepe2 |
#58 | |||
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1. Lin just finished his age 20 season. He will be starting his age 21 season in AA. He is a year and a half ahead on the age advancement scale.
2. Average is far from the most predictive stat to look at, especially for a toolsy player that is well ahead on the age advancement scale. Lin has an extremely advanced approach at the plate. He walks at a good clip (high ISOD) and he doesn't strike out very often. His BB/K rate was the third highest amongst sox players in full season ball. In fact, his BB/K rate was the 5th highest in the Carolina league....AS A 20 YEAR OLD. He also showed a reasonable amount of pop with 7 HR and a LD% around 20%. Keep in mind that power is often the last tool to develop. 3. Scouting reports on Lin have been very positive. He is a fantastic athlete that has great range in centerfield. He also has arguably the best arm in the system. So in summary, he is a terrific athlete with a great approach at the plate. He is playing well above what would be considered age appropriate with plus defensive skills and flashes of power. He needs to improve his ability to make contact, but there are plenty of signs that he'll be able to improve. It is also worth noting that he played through an injury for the first month this season that dragged down his stats.
Last Edited By: chavopepe2 11/13/09 10:33 PM.
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tdrowe |
#59 | |||
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Let me just say I might be a little biased because I am a huge CH Lin fan. That said, you're insane.
First of all, you're using only batting average to demonstrate that CH Lin is unexciting and overrated. You're also claiming he hit .269, which he did, in the Olympics. In his age 18 season, he had 175 AB in SS-A ball. In his first year of full season ball, he had 362 AB, amid reports that he had plus-plus range in centerfield and at least a plus arm. He didn't show great hitting ability, but his .69 BB/K ratio was good for second on Greenville among those with at least 70 AB; he also stole 33 bases in 40 attempts (82.5%), put up an ISOD of ~.1. This year in Salem he had a 22/2 LD%, which was very promising, all the while maintaining good walk and strikeout rates. He basically followed up his solid year at the plate with overall numbers that mirrored his previous season in Low-A. Remember this was only his age 20 season, too. His defensive tools are absolutely distinguish him, and if he can keep having productive seasons, where he shows adjustments (evidenced by his improved statistics as the year went on) and adapt to his league's pitching, he will prove he has a bat that is complimented by his speed, that would be more than enough to become a productive major league CF or trade chip for the Red Sox. |
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SexyBanana |
#60 | |||
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A little late to the party but I have to say I agree with this list for the most part. I think Lars should be higher, I would bump him up to #7, and that's
really placing a lot of weight on the bad year. I expect Lars to bounce back pretty nicely, he is still young and the talent is certainly there. If Lars did
not have his down season he would absolutely be in the top 3.
Westmoreland is in my mind the no-brainer #1. He is now fully healed from his injury and I can't wait to see what he will do in full season ball. I understand the hesitation placing him above Kelly because Kelly got it done at a higher level and Westmoreland was only at short season A. Having the pleasure to watch him every day, you can tell he is something special, five-tool all around. He was one of the fastest guys on the Lowell team, I would say he's just behind Gibson and pretty much on par with Pichardo in terms of speed. He had the most power potential of anyone this year in the NY-Penn League. We are talking 30-40 HR a year potential. The small amount of time he had in the outfield, he was rather stellar and had a pretty good throwing arm, he mostly played LF, so I didn't see him a lot in center. I think he might stay at a corner instead of center as he moves up the ladder. He hits for average and gets on base very well. The one thing he needs to improve on is pitch recognition and cutting down his strikeouts. Yes, he dominated the NY-Penn League, but the talent this year was very thin, Westy will run into a bit of wall at times as he moves up and faces more stellar competition, he will overcome it, but he will have bumps in the road, he isn't going to just fast track it to Boston. Kelly is someone that I really would like to see commit to a full year of pitching, this is a guy I would not trade if he can duplicate his success on the mound that he had this year, if he continues to moan about playing short, that's when I think you really consider dealing him, he has talent at short, but he just wouldn't hit enough to make it to the majors. Comparing Gibson to Brian Roberts is a bit premature, Gibson had his struggles both last year and this year at Lowell. He managed to put together a great season this year, but he did have his struggles. He's a more natural shortstop who is converting to second. In talking with him, he still is getting used to second, so his defense certainly isn't what it could be. He will be a guy that has a lot of range based on his speed once he gets better jumps on the ball. Gibson has blazing speed, may be the fastest guy in our entire system. I like him as a guy that hits second in the lineup, he can get on base and really create some havoc. I don't see the power developing quickly, he has gap power which will turn into moderate HR power if he bulks up. If Gibby can put together a good full season showing, you will see him skyrocket up many of our lists. The potential is absolutely there and I can see him profiling to a Brian Roberts type of player in time. This may be my bias speaking, but one guy to watch next year is Alex Wilson. He dominated in short stints this year in Lowell. He will most likely have the restrictions lifted next year and I think will have some big time success. He is a bulldog type of pitcher, big Texas righty, he doesn't have a flaming fastball saw him touch 94 a few times remember he is coming of a TJ surgery, so maybe we see him add a few MPH in time. His secondary stuff seemed pretty sharp and he is someone who attacks the zone, definitely will see pretty K:BB ratio's from him, the one concern I have is at higher level's he may get too much of the zone at times which will lead to trouble. It's really hard to project him right now, but I think he's definitely someone to watch, because he has a lot of good potential. |
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