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 amfox1 |
Jed Hoyer to become GM of San Diego Padres |
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Posts: 6280 10/23/09 11:04 AM
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According to multiple reports, San Diego is moving closer to naming Boston Assistant GM Jed Hoyer as the next General Manager of the Padres.
This potentially could have implications on trades between the two organizations, including a potential (but unlikely, in my view) Adrian Gonzalez trade. Discuss.
Last Edited By: amfox1 10/23/09 9:42 PM.
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 TWilliams4649 |
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Veteran Member
Posts: 130 10/23/09 11:29 AM |
I believe that the biggest implications this will have on a Gonzalez trade would be that whatever the decision is, it would get done fast with little
negotiations. Hoyer knows our prospects and who he would want for his team and he knows what Theo wants to give up for Gonzalez.
This is why it will probably be a deal made quickly or not made at all. |
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SexyBanana |
#2 | |||
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Posts: 1313 10/23/09 4:21 PM
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Hoyer may be officially announced as GM later today. Also according to Gammons, we have extended offers to both Towers and Riccardi to
come aboard.
Last Edited By: SexyBanana 10/23/09 4:46 PM.
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Guidas |
#3 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 5 10/23/09 5:03 PM |
This was discussed at some length in the general off-season thread but I'll repost my opinion that it actually compromises the Red Sox in a dealing for
Adrian Gonzales or any other player in the Padres org and the reasoning behind it:
I have to believe that if Jed Hoyer ends up as San Diego's GM it would make dealing for AGonz even more difficult since Hoyer will know much more about the players in the Sox system. Often times in a trade the trading partner is relying on whatever scouting data they have, available stats plus their own projections. Ultimately there's more guessing going on with the other team about your team's prospects, and vice versa. With Hoyer in the driver's seat in San Diego, there's much less guess work because he knows all the Red Sox players in the deal as well as Theo does and he knows who Theo and the Sox org value on San Diego's team. (edifying this, the Globe did a piece back in 06 I think about a variety of Sox prospects with anonymous comments from other teams execs or chief scouts who offered thoughts on selected Sox prospects; one comment was, "We don't know how much they (The Sox) like him." - the implication being if the Sox don't like a player that another team secretly covets, he can be had cheaply in a deal). Since Hoyer knows not just all our prospects, but also how much each is valued internally, my guess is that makes San Diego a very difficult trading partner going forward for the next three years or so, even though the personal relationships are excellent. This may be why the Sox have not done much business with teams where recent front office execs have gone. |
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Nolson20 |
#4 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 302 10/23/09 8:53 PM |
Guidas makes a valid point but then again he may value a prospect in higher respects then Epstein.
It works both ways, there will have to be a differing opinion on a few prospects between him and Epstein. |
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Duffman545 |
#5 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 1150 10/23/09 9:21 PM |
That makes sense. However, at the same time, haing seen them in person more than a few times, Hoyer may have a higher opinion of the Brittons, Dents and
Pimentels in the organization than Towers may have. I honestly think there's no difference, really, and I also don't think Gonzalez will be traded at
all this offseason.
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FenwayTheHardWay |
#6 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 1599 10/23/09 11:36 PM Veteran Member |
Bummer, unless of course you're a Padres fan. Best of luck to Jed.
I never thought Gonzalez would be traded in the first place, but now I think there's basically zero chance we get him. From a PR standpoint, it just wouldn't look right.
"Jonathan Papelbon, not wasting any time, going to his bread and butter there, and that's the
cheese."- Buck Martinez
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tdrowe |
#7 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 1107 10/23/09 11:54 PM |
PETCO is gonna be hoppin' in a few years. Great for the Pads. And sdsoxfan.
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buffs44444 |
#8 | |||
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Moderator Veteran Member
Posts: 1219 10/24/09 1:36 PM |
Good luck Jed! Go get'em out there!
As a collegian for Wesleyan, Hoyer was a three-time letterwinner in baseball as a left fielder, shortstop and pitcher. As a hitter, Hoyer played in 102 games with 90 starts. He had 123 hits (which ranks 18th all-time at Wesleyan) in 338 at-bats for a career .364 average. He scored 80 runs and knocked in 50. He had 22 doubles, four triples and two home runs. He walked 61 times with just 22 strikeouts and stole 36 bases in 43 attempts. As a fielder, he posted 158 putouts, 151 assists and 21 errors for a .936 percentage. On the mound, Hoyer made 34 appearances with nine starts and two complete games. In 109 2/3 innings of work, he allowed 94 hits (71 singles, 22 doubles and one home run) while striking out 59 and walking 36. He gave up 42 runs, 30 of which were earned for a 2.46 career ERA. He posted a 7-1 career record and had 11 saves, which stands as a Wesleyan career record. His seven saves during the 1996 season also is a Wesleyan single-season mark. He was named a third-team all-New England Division III choice by the ABCA in 1995 and a second-team pick in 1996.link
Madness is like gravity....all you need is a little push.
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LondonSox |
#9 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 250 09/03/55 3:56 PM |
Shame for the Sox, but good for Jed, he's a good guy by all accounts and best wishes.
I think the upside for the Sox is it's a GM Theo knows well to share and gain info with and from, which can't hurt. Having good friends in high places can't hurt. Also I think it's good for Sox hiring to show that if you shine you get noticed, and that they won't stand in your way. Will be interesting to see if drafting and scouting etc has any significant changes. I think the Towers and Riccardi news is interesting, 2 ex Theo staffers in GM seats, 3 ex GMs in the Theo staff! Generally to get to be sa GM you have to be very good at SOMETHING, in Riccardi's case it was meant to be talent evaluation. Get those guys back to what they were good at, but able to understand how what they do and think links into the rest of the picture. Ie you have a very over qualified guy doing what he likes and is best at, and appreciates not doing the bits they hated/ or where terrible at. Also the contacts pool just goes up, Towers esp comes across as a guy most people liked and respected. The Theo network of contacts with those two Beird and friendly ex employees running teams is pretty cool potentially. I just hope Jed wasn't the driving force behind drafting, or rather the only force |
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yankshater213 |
#10 | |||
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Rookie
Posts: 48 10/24/09 3:21 PM |
I think Hoyer is smart enough to know that Gonzalez is a great hitter, and that he (or anyone for that matter) most likely wouldn't trade the guy unless
San Diego sees 100%+ back in return.
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dd7136 |
#11 | |||
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Rookie
Posts: 5 10/25/09 8:48 AM |
Put me in the camp of any dealings the Sox might have w/ San Diego just got harder... I don't think the Sox will target Gonzalez due to the cost anyway,
although I'm sure they'd love to have him. Let's look at it this way, Hoyer I'm sure knows all the in's and out's of the Sox thinking
and how Epstein feels about his prospects. Whether they have disagreements or not over prospects probably won't matter match because I'm sure
we're talking about premier prospects here when talking about Gonzalez.
Take the Montero situation in AZ. If the reports are true, Byrnes and Epstein couldn't work out a trade for a backup catcher (Montero) due to the fact that Byrnes wanted Bowden and Epstien wouldn't part w/ him... Which of course both GMs look wrong for now... Imagine the high end guys Hoyer would want for Gonzalez. I think it speaks very highly of the Red Sox system that so many of it's young front office types are targeted for these jobs. But think in the short term it affects the teams dealings with these teams, until the talent turns over. And in the long term, probably at the least makes the former Epstien diciples a bit more cautious. |
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Bury the Hammer |
#12 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 582 10/25/09 9:59 AM Veteran Member |
I don't see any reason why it would make a deal harder to get done. I feel like people are afraid to say that it could make a deal easier because they
think it implies that Hoyer is just going to hand him to us for a bag of balls, that's not the point at all.
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jr russo |
#13 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 74 10/26/09 8:13 AM |
I am happy for Jed also. It just shows people want a piece of the Red Sox formula. There not hiring Yankee executives.
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sdsoxfan |
#14 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 99 10/26/09 3:07 PM |
I am very excited about Hoyer implementing a long range player development program in San Diego. Pads need infusion of athleticism and talent that can be 2-3
years away as club will be targeting 2013-2015 window of opportunity, but they need pitching arms in Petco to ultimately succeed.
Moorad loves Theo clones having hired Byrnes when he was CEO in Arizona and now hires Jed to run San Diego operations. Sox are a big market team that operates like a small market team should with a couple of big contracts thrown in, but the key to Sox success is farm system development which Sox have done as well as any franchise in baseball during Theo's tenure. Moorad overpaid when he purchased Pads and needs to raise another $300m from investors to buy out Moores. Overpaying together with bad economy has Pads targeting a $25-$40m payroll over next 3-5 years. This provides the opporutnity for a Gonzalez trade, but Hoyer will not trade him for 5 magic beans. I believe that Boston's cost to acquire Gonzo has gone up with Jed in San Diego, but the probability just went up as well as there is much less risk for Hoyer to make this trade as he knows what he is getting back. Hoyer can't afford to get this trade wrong, but will have confidence that multitude of players back from Sox will prove to be a great deal for both clubs. Be aware that Gonzo trade for prospects and ML ready players would be much more painful than Hoyer's trade of Hanley et al for Beckett and Lowell as Marlins had to get rid of Lowell's contract and Gonzo is only slated to make $4.75m and $5.6m next two years. Theo recognizes that he needs at least one more elite bat in his lineup and Gonzo could be a .320 BA, 40-50 HR, 130+ RBI, 420 OBA batting 3rd or 4th in Sox lineup for next 5 years. With zero protection around him in the Pads lineup, Gonzo hasn't seen a fat pitch (other than pitcher mistakes) in the last 2-3 years and still has put up massive numbers playing half his games in Petco. |
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raftsox |
#15 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 1375 10/26/09 4:09 PM |
sdsoxfan wrote:I agree, but add that a very good Padres team will be comprised of high strikeout pitchers, a strong infield defense, and a very range-y outfield. Their offense should consist of speedy players from top to bottom because the only way they'll consistently score is by stretching hits for extra bases and moving from first to third and second to home well. IE, their offense should be the consumate "small-ball" team. All of which means that any trade we make with them will consist of players like Kalish, Buchholz, Westmoreland, Navarro, Stolmy. Given the familiarity that Jed has with the Sox system, I can't see a trade working out; both FOs will likely value the prospects too much to agree on a deal.
I am speechless. ...this site is not intended to be a place where you post every ridiculous and half-formed thought that comes into your head.
... You should post less. - AMarshal2
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Arquimedez Bozo |
#16 | |||
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Posts: 8733 10/26/09 6:45 PM Chris Hatfield |
Post in the Herald describes how Hoyer's departure will shake out, as the Sox are apparently not going to fill the position. Link
In case anyone is wondering, part of the reason they will not be filling the position is that it was a position created when Theo returned to the team after his brief departure. Hoyer and Cherington had been promoted to co-GM, so rather than demote them and everyone else who was promoted - Hazen (who had filled Cherington's position I believe), et al - they just created assistant GM positions for the two. Basically, Hoyer and Cherington were/are extra front office brain power.
"They should go to soxprospect so BOZO THE CLOWN and the rest of THE WANTS TO BE will give you some
information" - legendary words from a legendary man
"By the way I like the Canadian accent of Chris Hatfield" - the other Charlie Zink guy My Twitter / SoxProspects Twitter / SoxProspects on Facebook |
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left coast bosox fan |
#17 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 3400 10/26/09 7:15 PM Veteran Member |
raftsox wrote:We have a very similar perspective except that I feel that the San Diego knowledge and opinion of the Sox players is a plus, not a minus and could in fact make a deal more likely. EditADD: Using Gonzalez as an example, if the Padres seek to move him for their future, the Red Sox won't be the only team making offers. Hoyer will form an opinion on the prospects offered from every team and take the package that helps the Padres the most in his opinion. Having already formed positive thoughts on the Sox prospects has to be a very very strong influence on that decision.
Last Edited By: left coast bosox fan 10/26/09 7:19 PM.
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Arquimedez Bozo |
#18 | |||
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Posts: 8735 10/26/09 10:35 PM Chris Hatfield |
LCBF and others, it's worth noting that Hoyer's duties with the Red Sox had very little to do with the farm system. He was focused more on Major League
scouting, evaluation, roster construction, and contract negotiation. He may have a bit more of an idea of the Sox's minor leaguers than other GM's, but
a) it wouldn't be as much as, say, Cherington or Hazen would have, and b) there is no reason to believe that he is going to have a more positive opinion
because he's more familiar. It's just as likely that he's going to have a more negative opinion than he would have otherwise from seeing a
player's flaws.
Put it this way - if you work in one department of a company, you're likely going to have a bit more of an idea of what goes on in another department than someone off the street, but that doesn't mean you necessarily have a mastery of what goes on in the other department. I'm going to be honest, I think the hiring of Hoyer really doesn't do much either way to the Sox' chances of trading for Gonzalez, at least in the sense of such a change having to do with the fact that Hoyer comes from the Sox organization as opposed to his coming from somewhere else. This is particularly true, in my opinion, when you factor in that Towers was a very, very frequent trade partner with the Sox.
"They should go to soxprospect so BOZO THE CLOWN and the rest of THE WANTS TO BE will give you some
information" - legendary words from a legendary man
"By the way I like the Canadian accent of Chris Hatfield" - the other Charlie Zink guy My Twitter / SoxProspects Twitter / SoxProspects on Facebook |
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tdrowe |
#19 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 1116 10/26/09 10:50 PM |
It's definitely more likely that we can make smaller trades with the Padres, however (filling out a roster, trade deadline tweaks). That is, if there was
much talent on the Padres roster that Hoyer would have an interest in unloading. Were a deal need to be hammered out quickly, the familiarity between Hoyer and
Epstein, as well as the receptiveness would help such a deal materialize.
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left coast bosox fan |
#20 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 3401 10/26/09 11:16 PM Veteran Member |
"Put it this way - if you work in one department of a company, you're likely going to have a bit more of an idea of what goes on in another
department than someone off the street, but that doesn't mean you necessarily have a mastery of what goes on in the other department."
True but if you manage your department and your function includes the output from other departments, you will be very familiar with the flow of resources from the other departments. I'm sure he is familiar, in detail, with what the Sox really think of all their primary prospects and will know exactly what Theo thinks he's offering. He had to, how many think tank meetings do you think he was in ? We will have to agree to disagree on this one and yes I knew Hoyer's function with the Sox. |
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