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Posts: 1153
10/23/09 8:02 AM
Veteran Member
Jim Palmer likes Delcarmen a lot. Several times during this season when the Sox were playing the Orioles and Delcarmen pitched, Palmer spoke highly of his stuff. However, Palmer thinks Delcarmen might be more effective as a starter than as a reliever because he has "starter stuff." He also said that there were people on other teams who shared that opinion. But he also said that Delcarmen could be a closer for some other teams. Apparently that was what the Nationals had in mind when they were trying to get him. Delcarmen did begin his minor league career with the Sox as a starter and was only converted to relief after his TJ surgery. It seemed to me, watching Delcarmen this year, that he was tending to overthrow and consequently losing some command. Much of the time a reliever is under more immediate pressure than is a starter, and does not have the opportunity to develop his pitches the way a starter can. If one pitch is not working right a reliever cannot work on it in the game and he may resort to just relying on one of his pitches.
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Posts: 4375
10/23/09 9:21 AM
Posts: 626
10/23/09 9:37 AM
buffs44444 wrote: Wait, what? The guy has one bad second half after being a damn good reliever for several years.....and all of a sudden he's at rock bottom and we're teetering on the edge of dumping him? Wow. And I thought the guy who said this team needed to be blown up needed to come down from the ledge. A lot of people here seem to be using an accelerated Mayan calendar.....acting like we're staring into the abyss of 2012 right now. FWIW, I'd agree more with the observation that he's a valuable trade chip, if the FO decides to go that route, for a number of teams who might want a low cost option at the end of the bullpen.
Posts: 6278
10/23/09 10:11 AM
Senior Forum Moderator
DCRi wrote: Delcarmen did begin his minor league career with the Sox as a starter and was only converted to relief after his TJ surgery. It seemed to me, watching Delcarmen this year, that he was tending to overthrow and consequently losing some command. Much of the time a reliever is under more immediate pressure than is a starter, and does not have the opportunity to develop his pitches the way a starter can. If one pitch is not working right a reliever cannot work on it in the game and he may resort to just relying on one of his pitches.
Delcarmen did begin his minor league career with the Sox as a starter and was only converted to relief after his TJ surgery. It seemed to me, watching Delcarmen this year, that he was tending to overthrow and consequently losing some command. Much of the time a reliever is under more immediate pressure than is a starter, and does not have the opportunity to develop his pitches the way a starter can. If one pitch is not working right a reliever cannot work on it in the game and he may resort to just relying on one of his pitches.
Posts: 216
10/23/09 10:29 AM
I think MDC has value but not as much as he did pre all star break. I could see a team like the Brewers having interest and maybe dangling Hardy in return. He could take over for Hoffman after next season if that were the case. With that being said I dont think I would make that trade.
Posts: 4
10/23/09 12:07 PM
Posts: 1217
10/23/09 2:12 PM
jamalisamra20 wrote: I don't see what is so far fetched about my statement. All I said was the guy isn't a shiny chip. I mean, just use your head: what team is going to give up anything of value for a guy who is an eighth inning guy at best (and didn't pitch like one this past season) and has fought bouts of consistency (two of his three 50+ IP seasons he's had a WHIP over 1.5) his entire career?? Teams just don't give up value for inconsistent relievers because of the volatile nature of relievers. Look at Ramon Ramirez. Following his 2008 season saw him post an ERA+ of 162 and all the Royals could get for him was an overpriced fourth outfielder whose only two tools were range and speed. Delcarmen's coming off a year which saw him post an ERA+ of 105, continuing a trend which has seen his ERA plus fall each decline from season-to-season over the past three seasons. He was so bad at the end of the season that the Sox chose Paul Byrd over him for the postseason roster. He'd maybe fetch us an Eric Byrnes (mainly because of the salary), and any player traded straight up for Eric Byrnes is hardly someone who I would classify as a shiny chip. One final thing: I never said "we're teetering on the edge of dumping him." I actually advocated we should keep him this season because his value is so low we won't get anything near equal value for him. If he still isn't cutting it by the end of next season, then you have to think about cutting the cord on him (just like you would any reliever who hasn't been hacking it for two seasons). If you are going to call someone out, make sure you have the facts straight.
Posts: 1154
10/23/09 4:14 PM
Posts: 52
10/24/09 2:00 AM
DCRi wrote: There are a number of teams where Delcarmen would be one of the team's best RPs, including the Orioles and the Nationals. So I think there is a market for him, but certainly he is not going to bring a first-line player. But a package that included him might. I think his bad second half was mostly due to command issues. He still was throwing in the high 90s. He was quoted as saying that he had a mechanical problem with his delivery that he was trying to fix, but he apparently never did. His walk rate was quite a bit higher than his career average. If the problem was due to a mechanical flaw then it problem is fixable and he could come back next year with a much better season.
Posts: 261
10/24/09 8:44 AM
Posts: 493
10/24/09 11:22 AM
MDC - I'm in a couple camps on him. I agree with those who say he's a solid relief pitcher. However, I do think he's a shiny chip in a trade, but we might just be talking symantics on what our opinions of a shiny chip are. I'm not saying he's a blue chip; just a good piece of a trade who adds real value to the deal and not a throw in. Let's face it. this guy is a proven major leaguer with a live arm who has succeeded in Boston and during the playoffs. There are going to be pitching coaches everywhere clamouring to get their hands on him. There will be GM's desperate to fix bullpens who will look at him as an upgrade. I think teams are starting to realize the value of a good bullpen all around baseball. Veteran teams need them to win the WS or make playoffs (see Cubs and Tigers) and teams with young pitching staffs need good bullpens and good defense to help their young pitchers keep confidence and grow as players. On top of all that MDC is team controlled for the next 3 seasons. That's huge in this day and age where a middle reliever can get 3 or 4 years at 4-5 million per season... that's a big investment to make.
Brisox - i agree that there aren't a lot of changes that need to be made, but I do feel Ortiz is the biggest problem with this lineup and it's only going to get worse in my eyes. I'd like to add Abreu for 2/20M and make him the full time DH and 4th OF. Dual role allows you to work Ortiz into games and rest your OF's... the downside he's a LHH and so it Ortiz is minimal to me as Abreu does just fine verse LHP and I'd rather have Drew in games vs LHP than have him sitting... having the RHH on the bench for Tito just gives him the excuse to sit JD... I also do not want Gathright or Anderson on this team... I'm fine with another OF on the roster, but not those guys... they are nice when roster's expand and on playoff rosters for PR, but not for full season guys... they bring nothing to the table in the batters box and you can always go find a pinch runner for the playoffs... I also want a Harden or Bedard on a 1 year deal for the 5th starters spot.
Posts: 8
10/24/09 11:28 AM
Buchholz Its spelled: B-U-C-H-H-O-L-Z Not: Bucholtz, Buckholtz, Buccholz or any other way
Posts: 6
10/24/09 12:48 PM
Posts: 3014
10/24/09 1:03 PM
Posts: 244
10/24/09 1:28 PM
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10/24/09 1:45 PM
Posts: 1151
10/24/09 2:44 PM
Posts: 1169
10/24/09 2:57 PM
MVPedroia15 wrote: "Sox and Pinstripes" had a good article on how to get Gonzo without giving up Kelly, Bard, Buchholz or Westmoreland: http://www.soxandpinstrip...hholz-bard-or-kelly.html - Jed Hoyer should be immediately fired if makes that trade. You have to give something to get something. AG is the face of the franchise, a latin player from that area, and still under control with a reasonable salary for the small market Pads for several more years. You have to get back BIG time talent for that and Lars, Bowden, Reddick, and Doubront just won't cut it - not even close. More average players won't make up for the lack of real top end talent going to the Pads in that proposal. That blog post was one of the biggest pieces of bullshit I have read. Just because someone made a post on a blog doesn't mean it's realistic. (Now heres the fun part) If Joe Mauer hits FA in 2011, give him a blank check. Ortiz and Lowell will be off the roster, and V-Mart could DH (probably his best suited role as he ages) V-Mart could take most of the time at DH, maybe playing catcher every 5th day and DH'ing Mauer. That way both catcher can play close to 162 without too much of the wear and tear we see with most backstops. I would not hesitate to give Mauer 8 years, 22+MM per. He's that kind of player. - If by fun you mean fantasy, sure why not - dream all you want. But this is not a discussion of fantasy teams. Joe Mauer is not coming through that door. Can we just move on this pipe dream?
Posts: 494
10/24/09 3:53 PM
Posts: 1170
10/24/09 4:04 PM
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