Why would SD want four outfielders? Wouldn't they want to spread the positions out, like have Lars or Rizzo instead of Reddick and maybe a pitcher of equal
value to Kalish? The Sox would be crazy to do the deal either way.
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The Red Sox 2009-2010 Offseason Discussion Thread
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 BringHanleyback2 |
#321 | |||
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Posts: 217 10/21/09 6:14 PM |
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MLBDreams |
#322 | |||
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Posts: 543 10/21/09 6:34 PM |
Our last 2 ex-Red Sox Assistant GM's Josh Byrnes & Doug Melvin (both worked under Theo) didn't give us anything easy when Theo is looking for their
players to fill in RS roster by trade. Nothing happens between Theo & his former assistant GM so far. So, don't expect Jed Hoyer to give Theo too easy
deal such as AGonz for Jed Lowrie, Josh Reddick, Casey Kotchman & Michael Bowden. Only Billy Beane-JR Ricciardi were successful trade partners. We'll
see what Jed & Theo can do to improve their team roster.
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ILikethisBayGuy |
#323 | |||
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Rookie
Posts: 23 10/21/09 7:17 PM |
Nexus wrote:I'm sure the fans in SD will survive. I wasn't talking a Kevin McHale type of favor here. |
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Nexus |
#324 | |||
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Posts: 238 10/21/09 8:23 PM
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All of this trade x for y stuff makes me think of Dave Cameron's trade value series he put together at fangraphs around the ASB.
Who do you think, right now, are the Sox most valuable trade assets based on age, $$$, contract/team control, position, and future performance/ceiling? My list: Untouchable, Touch but don't tell, This is awkward, 2nd date, PDA, Videotape and show friends 1. Lester 2. Pedroia 3. Youkilis 4. Buchholz 5. Beckett 6. Papelbon 7. Martinez 8. Ellsbury 9. Kelly 10. Bard 11. Westmoreland 12. Drew 13. Matsuzaka 14. Reddick 15. Lowrie 16. Kalish 17. L. Anderson 18. Tazawa 19. Bowden 20. Pimentel 21. Rizzo 22. Exposito 23. Kotchman 24. Lowell 25. R. Ramirez 134. Espinoza 135. Ortiz Did not include players who were 2009 IFA signings, 2009 draft signings, or players with 2010 options (VMart being obvious exception) |
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Boston11 |
#325 | |||
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Rookie
Posts: 1 10/21/09 9:54 PM |
It appears that in both last years trade deadline and this years off-season trade talk, a lot of focus is on whether the Sox would/should consider trading
Buchholz.
In 2010 barring injury and potential trades, Buccholz will be either the #3 or #4 starter, and of cousre his worth to the team would increase in 2011, if Beckett leaves in free agency. I am interested to hear what others think of Buchholz's potential and worth to the Sox. Is he worth more as a bargaining chip in a deal for an established major league star, or as a cornerstone of the Sox pitching staff? Reason I ask this is twofold: While not being old, he isn't that young, will be 26 next year. He has pitched a total of 190 innings in his career, and has had substantial questions on his mental and maturity makeup. In ths case of risk versus reward, waht is tha safest bet for the Sox going forward? |
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jsinger121 |
#326 | |||
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Posts: 15525 10/21/09 10:22 PM Jonathan Singer |
Welcome to the site Boston11.
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ancientsoxfogey |
#327 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 4373 10/22/09 7:07 AM Veteran Member |
Fascinating list, Nexus, though I think I would move Kelly and Westmoreland into the category with Buchholz and Beckett. Boston11, the answer to the Buchholz
question is really hard, because it involves psyche. I don't think Buchholz gets traded, because I think there will be a disconnect between the value the
Sox DEMAND for him - proven major league success now and good possibilities to be an ace - and the value other GM's are willing to assign to him,
discounting for psyche uncertainties.
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TokenWilliams |
#328 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 489 10/22/09 7:46 AM |
Nexus wrote:Nexus - can we have a little bit more information as to what "2nd Date" ect means.... I'm very confused by the categories since this is a categorical list based on who you'd be likely to trade... I get the premise and like it; just not really sure how each translates to your willingness to move someone.. I'd group 4-11 all in one 2nd teir grouping that isn't likely to be moved, but maybe for the right top notch player I'd have Pimentel, Rizzo and Expo all ahead of Bowden (i wouldn't even have Bowden in that category - I'm long over-due on my desire to get some value for him in the trade market assuming it exists). Kotchman should be in the Ortiz group |
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TokenWilliams |
#329 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 490 10/22/09 7:54 AM |
Amfox - i'm pretty much right there with you regarding Beckett... I do think I have a little higher outlook on his ability than you do though. At some
points in time, the front office is going to have to resign some guys to second contracts. They need to be wise as to which guys they do give their money out
to, but if we want long-term sustained success there cannot be constant turn-over all the time. Beckett, to me, is a guy that should hold up physically (I
feel weird saying this considering the questions surrounding him early in his career). However, he's a big power pitcher and those guys typically age
well. I would not hesitate to give him 4 years for this reason. There is something to be said for continuity and if he's let go then you need someone to
replace him, even as a number 2 (I think of him more as a 1A) unless we plan to cross our fingers and home someone else becomes that guy in the next 2/3 years.
Even if Kelly is going to be the guy, realistically, he won't even be in Boston before late 2011. Then once he's here, it's safe to assume
he'll need some adjustment time. Can we really expect Casey to be a 1 or 1A before 2013 (and this is an accelerated time scale)... This team will need
someone to fill that void for a few years and I'm usually for the guy that's already here. He does annoy me with the inconsistancies, but he's
gotten it done for the most part as well as almost anyone other than a small group of 10 or so guys. He's certainly a top 20 guy in baseball...
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Nexus |
#330 | |||
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Posts: 239 10/22/09 8:06 AM
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TokenWilliams wrote:2nd date = I like the players, but I wouldn't lose any sleep if they were traded for an impact bat/arm. |
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Bosoxwest |
#331 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 213 10/22/09 8:08 AM |
If we are going to be dealing with San Diego I'd like to see Chase Headley coming back. Cheaper than AGon and I think has a bright future. Switch hitter,
wants to play 3B. The power is not there yet but you look at his hit chart and he had 10-15 PetCo FOs last year that in Fenway are either gone or XBH. Hit very
well in the second half. Solves the corner problem for a good while with Youks staying at 1B.
Just wanted to say that Singer has disallowed me from posting new topics ever since my Freddy Guzman thread. He seemed very upset about my opinions and was
almost hostile in his responses. He must have been upset about something else, I don't know, it was strange. Anyway, apparently he has deemed me unworthy
of starting new discussions. Do I mind? I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man.
-- Youngcheese, making my day |
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Nexus |
#332 | |||
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Posts: 240 10/22/09 8:35 AM
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Bosoxwest wrote: Didn't Theo have a crush on Headley a few years back? Looking at his Petco numbers, you almost feel sorry for him. Career home: .218/.305/.318 Career away: .301/.368/.437 |
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jdb |
#333 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 215 10/22/09 9:14 AM |
I could be wrong but I think Theo thought hard about drafting Headly over Pedroia.
Edit: Wrong Headly was 05 when we had all the picks. I still think Theo was high on him.
Last Edited By: jdb 10/22/09 9:17 AM.
Edited 1 time.
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Guidas |
The Red Sox 2009-2010 Offseason Discussion Thread | #334 | ||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 2 10/22/09 10:48 AM |
I have to believe that if Jed Hoyer ends up as San Diego's GM it would make dealing for AGonz even more difficult since Hoyer will know much more about the
players in the Sox system. Often times in a trade the trading partner is relying on whatever scouting data they have, available stats plus their own
projections. Ultimately there's more guessing going on with the other team about your team's prospects, and vice versa. With Hoyer in the driver's
seat in San Diego, there's much less guess work because he knows all the Red Sox players in the deal as well as Theo does and he knows who Theo and the Sox org value on San Diego's team. (edifying this, the Globe did a piece back in 06 I think about a variety of Sox prospects with anonymous comments from other teams execs or chief
scouts who offered thoughts on selected Sox prospects; one comment was, "We don't know how much they (The Sox) like him." - the implication being
if the Sox don't like a player that another team secretly covets, he can be had cheaply in a deal). Since Hoyer knows not just all our prospects, but also
how much each is valued internally, my guess is that makes San Diego a very difficult trading partner going forward for the next three years or so, even though
the personal relationships are excellent. This may be why the Sox have not done much business with teams where recent front office execs have gone.
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LennSakata |
#335 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 173 10/22/09 11:24 AM |
I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox throwing Dallas McPherson into the mix this off-season. Obviously at 29 and with his injury history his ship has likely
sailed but he has always demonstrated a good eye in the minors, hit 42 homeruns with 78 BB's (168 k's) in 448 triple-a at bats last season and could
fit into the 1b/3b/dh equation depending who is hitting/healthy. It could be worth a look, might mash at Fenway...maybe could be a poor mans Adam Dunn is he is
able to somewhat maintain the BB rate, stay healthy, etc. Longshot but a low risk move that would be easy to walk away from.
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Nolson20 |
#336 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 301 10/22/09 1:01 PM |
Guidas wrote:Or it is possible he values a prospect much more than Theo ultimately does. I would suppose it could work both ways. |
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Guidas |
#337 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 3 10/22/09 3:25 PM |
I wonder if there is a deal to be had for Brandon Wood. The Angels apparently do value him as highly as others think they should, and I have heard that Theo
has long been a fan. Then again, with Figgins hitting free agency, they may finally give him a chance to start if they can't resign Chone.
On a separate note, I wonder what kind of value Manny DelCarmen would have. I have heard buzz over the years that many other teams hold him in high regard (or in high regard as far as middle relievers go). His location problems aside in the 2nd half of the season, he still has his velocity and virtually every pitching coach thinks he can "fix" a guy with velocity and control that comes and goes. Straight up, DelCarmen may not get you much but he could be a shiny chip in a package. |
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jamalisamra20 |
#338 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 625 10/22/09 3:41 PM |
Guidas wrote:Wrong. He is not a shiny chip. Shiny chips are guys who could fetch you value straight up. Plus, his value has never been lower and with the volitale nature of relief pitchers, they mind as well hold on to him to see if he can return to form. If not, then you dump him. |
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TWilliams4649 |
#339 | |||
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Veteran Member
Posts: 129 10/22/09 4:45 PM |
Nexus wrote: I don't fully understand the categories but I got the jist. I would have to say JD Drew should be up at least one category. I have no desire what so ever to trade him for a few reasons. 1. He is our best outfielder defensively. 2. He is one of our best hitters and can hit in any part of the line up. 3. He has a great eye which yields a great OBP. 4. He is clutch. (not necessarily getting a hit but getting on base) I know he is fragile and half the people on this site either hate him or love him, but it just seems to me he is a staple in our line up. I want to see him finish out his contract in Boston. (Unless he can be part of a deal that blows us away). |
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buffs44444 |
#340 | |||
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Posts: 1216 10/22/09 6:25 PM |
jamalisamra20 wrote: Wait, what? The guy has one bad second half after being a damn good reliever for several years.....and all of a sudden he's at rock bottom and we're teetering on the edge of dumping him? Wow. And I thought the guy who said this team needed to be blown up needed to come down from the ledge. A lot of people here seem to be using an accelerated Mayan calendar.....acting like we're staring into the abyss of 2012 right now. FWIW, I'd agree more with the observation that he's a valuable trade chip, if the FO decides to go that route, for a number of teams who might want a low cost option at the end of the bullpen.
Madness is like gravity....all you need is a little push.
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