| Author | Comment | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
soxprospects |
Trade Rater: Martinez Deal |
Lead | ||
|
While some teams make a splash at the non-waiver trade deadline, the Red Sox just did a cannonball. DJ
Bean of WEEI.com, citing
multiple media reports, has confirmed that Boston has acquired slugging catcher Victor Martinez from the Cleveland Indians in exchange for
pitchers Justin Masterson, Nick Hagadone, and Bryan Price. The 30-year-old Martinez is hitting .284/.368/.464 with 21 doubles,
15 home runs and 67 RBI in 377 at-bats so far this season, playing 52 games as a catcher, 47 at first base, and serving as the Tribe DH on 3 occasions. He is
currently in the fifth season of a five-year, $15.5 million contract with a team option for 2010 that would pay him $7 million. Just a season removed from
hitting a disappointing .278/.337/.365 with just 2 home runs, Martinez, a three-time American League All-Star, owns career .297/.369/.463 numbers with 103
home runs and 518 RBI in parts of 8 major league seasons with Cleveland. The Venezuelan switch-hitter was originally signed by the Indians as an
international free agent in 1996.
Masterson, a second-round draft choice by the Red Sox in 2006, is currently pitching out of the Boston bullpen. The
24-year-old righthander is 3-3 with a 4.50 ERA in 31 appearances for Boston, including 6 starts. Nick Hagadone was chosen by the Red Sox in the first
supplemental round of the 2007 draft and had been plying his trade in the starting rotation for the Greenville. Just a year removed from Tommy John surgery,
the 23-year-old lefthander was 0-2 with a 2.52 ERA and 32 strikeouts in 25 innings for the Drive. A 22-year-old native of Texas, Bryan Price was selected by
Boston in the first round of the 2008 draft and had made 19 starts between Greenville and Salem this season. He was a combined 4-8 with a 4.67 ERA and 97
strikeouts in 96.1 innings.
Rate this trade: (Total Votes: 138) - ClosedA - Great move: I love it. (60 / 43.5%) B - Good move: If I were in charge, I would have done the same, but I see some downside. (68 / 49.3%) C - Fair move: I'm indifferent. (6 / 4.3%) D - Bad move: I wouldn't have made this move, but it's not the end of the world. (3 / 2.2%) F - Terrible move: This is going to cause problems for the Sox going forward. (1 / 0.7%)
Last Edited By: templeUsox 08/01/09 10:14 AM.
Edited 1 time.
|
||||
|
|
||||
buffs44444 |
#1 | |||
|
Love it. Hagadone I'll miss because I think he's a future closer (and a damn good one at that ). But three prospects who I see as future bullpen arms
for an all-star bat who can also catch is a good value. I agree with the others who said that you guys are going to love watching him hit
|
||||
|
|
||||
jsinger121 |
#2 | |||
|
I voted a great move. They acquired a very good hitting C/1B and all they paid in price was a setup guy who only gets righties out, a 23 year old LHP in A ball
whose upside is the highest in this deal but has come off TJS and a high A ball pitcher that has struggled that may end up as a bullpen guy. This trade hardly
made a dent in the farm system. Kudos to Theo and company for pulling this off.
|
||||
|
|
||||
TokenWilliams |
#3 | |||
|
I love the deal too, but if I were a Cleveland fan I would also love it. I think both sides did a nice job. It's never fun giving up elite power arms,
but this is why you build depth. To get top notch players. I dont consider Victor a superstar, but he fills a lot of needs on this team both this year AND
next year. That makes this a great move.
|
||||
|
|
||||
Arquimedez Bozo |
#4 | |||
|
A. What they gave up came from such great depth that it barely made a dent in the system, and it's not like they didn't give up some talented players.
Hagadone had been lights out in the month of July. I see all three as good bullpen arms though. Martinez is in Boston for at least a year and a half and
possibly provides the bat this lineup needed.
I'D ALSO LIKE TO REMIND POSTERS THAT THE POINT OF THESE THREADS IS TO GET PEOPLE ON RECORD ABOUT THEIR THOUGHTS. PLEASE POST YOUR THOUGHTS IN THE THREAD - DON'T JUST VOTE! (LOOKING SPECIFICALLY AT YOU, TWO PEOPLE WHO VOTED D AND F) |
||||
|
|
||||
RedSoxFan2 |
#5 | |||
|
I just want to know who voted "F" and why? I gave this trade an "A". I don't think the Red Sox made a move at all that would even be
considered, "B". Kudos to Theo and Co.
Marge: Homer, the plant called. They said if you don't show up tomorrow don't bother showing up on Monday.
Homer: Woo-hoo. Four-day weekend. |
||||
|
|
||||
soxprospects |
#6 | |||
|
Voted B. I really think it's pretty much an A or A-, but I loved Justin Masterson (as a person and as a pitcher) and I am really bummed to see him go. I
also think Hagadone will be something special, but the Sox got a great player in return.
|
||||
|
|
||||
gator39 |
#7 | |||
|
I voted it a B. I'm dissapointed to see Masterson go,but I am shocked they were able to trade for Martinez without giving up more of their top guys. I
think they probably gave up 3 relievers. Hagadone could turn into B.J. Ryan someday, but it's worth it to acquire Martinez. price was about their # 9
pitching prospect. Not a huge loss.
|
||||
|
|
||||
toolerawk |
#8 | |||
|
I voted great move because they needed another catcher/dh/1st baseman that hopefully will spark some life in the team and give them another option beside tek
for next year at the catcher position and also because they didn't give up anything that they still don't have. bowden or smoltz can do masterson's
job, hagadone has no brighter future than kelly or tazawa, and price is, well, price. They didn't give up any particularly unique prospects (although I
will admit I was liking Hagadone cause he was a lefty with high heat) and got an impact bat in return that a) can spell an aging catcher and b) isn't
accident prone like Lowell to be an everyday switch hitting bat with pop.
Let me pull on your coat about something here tonight...
|
||||
|
|
||||
Cem21 |
#9 | |||
|
I voted A. The Sox gave up 3 relievers and got the impact bat that they were looking for. I like all 3 of them a lot and Hagadone/Price personally stings,
but in the grand scheme of things it isn't a big dent into the system and I am surprised they got this deal done with this package to be honest.
|
||||
|
|
||||
MaleNurse2010 |
#10 | |||
|
I voted B because this move has the potential to be great this year and was the best available move for Theo to make. Though there is the 5% chance that
Hagadone hits that ace ceiling of his, and Masterson developes a changeup and becomes a viable number three starter. That would be a large kick in the nuts
watching them flourish in Cleveland, but the potential of that happening is the reason Clevaland made the move.
|
||||
|
|
||||
RedSoxFan2 |
#11 | |||
|
If the Red Sox can sign 2 of Younginer, Kline, or Volz than the pitching depth will be right back to where it was. At the same time the Red Sox got an elite
offensive catcher who can also play 1B and is signed for next year. If they let him walk they will get 2 draft picks to replenish the farm, but more likely I
can see Martinez netting the Sox one draft pick as he's just the hold over for Joe Mauer. Even if some small chance that Joe Mauer signs an extension
Victor Martinez is only 30.
After that 10-1 lead the Red Sox blew and a similar lead almost blown to KC, I'm not too sad to see Masterson go. I think his usefullness to the big leauge club was 2+ years away unless the Red Sox wanted to diminish his value by making him a righty specialist.
Marge: Homer, the plant called. They said if you don't show up tomorrow don't bother showing up on Monday.
Homer: Woo-hoo. Four-day weekend. |
||||
|
|
||||
ancientsoxfogey |
#12 | |||
|
I voted B because I see some downside, though I think it's a good move and one the club probably needed to make. The downside is (1) Masterson and/or
Hagadone may come back to bite us in the future, though that's part of the game; and (2) for this year, the value of the trade is dependent on Francona
being able to manage the talent he now has at C/1B/3B/DH while keeping people's noses in line. There is some uncertainty whether Francona will do an
optimal job of the lineup and PT management, because he does have loyalty to guys who have done it before and he does put lineups out there sometimes that
leave us shaking our heads.
|
||||
|
|
||||
Ephus |
#13 | |||
|
I voted B.
The downside? In 2014, in a 5 game series the Red Sox are shut down by Barnes, Carrasco, and Hagadone. In all three games, late inning rallies are snuffed out by Justin Masterson. Chance of this happening? Somewhere between < 0 and .000028%, but it is possible. In seriousness, I do think Masterson and Hagadone will be contributors at the major league level for many years, and you hate to part with that, it is the definition of "downside." But for 2009, this deal had to be done, and, as my dog had taught me, you need to live in the moment to experience happiness.
"Things happen in Boston." -Joe Morgan
|
||||
|
|
||||
MasterShake15 |
#14 | |||
|
A - Sox gain some desperately needed C/1B depth and only give up three relievers to do so. I'm very pleased with this move.
Cem21.u says: Wells was a veteran boozer
|
||||
|
|
||||
AMarshal2 |
#15 | |||
|
I voted B. It's hard to see VMart as a huge upgrade. He would be an enormous upgrade at C but I doubt Tek is going to the bench regularly and I have
reservations about his D. He's only a marginal upgrade at 1B (via 3B) and DH, where he might not be an upgrade at all. The deal was fair and worth making,
hence a B.
aminahyaquin: Alou is a 37 year old 7 time MVP with a .347 lifetime batting average and a world of hustle. he
can golden glove field in his sleep.
tGG: Alou is actually 42, has never won an MVP, has a .303 lifetime batting average, and is mediocre at best in the field. joshv02: But, other than that, you're wrong.
Last Edited By: AMarshal2 08/01/09 12:05 PM.
Edited 1 time.
|
||||
|
|
||||
Plus Plus Intangibles |
#16 | |||
Arquimedez Bozo wrote:I voted "A" due mostly for this reason. Besides the obvious upgrade of VM over Lowell or Varitek, I also like how Martinez's contract lines up with Lars's ETA. I think that it's safe to say that Lars needs another year in the oven, and VM makes a great stop gap for 2010. I also agree with Token that I'd give this deal an "A" for CLE as well. |
||||
|
|
||||
Oz43 |
#17 | |||
|
I think the 2 D and 1 F votes were cast by Masterson, Hagadone, and Price.
I voted B. I like the move fine, but I don't see huge upside unless Tek gets hurt or really goes in the toilet offensively. I think people are over-rating Martinez's offense somewhat. .850 OPS from a catcher is excellent, but the same from a 1B is only decent. My guess is that he only catches 3 times per week for us, so that reduces the value of the trade a little, imo. It sounds like he is only an adequate defender at both positions (his catcher ERA the last 3 years is 4.01, 4.31, 5.78, compared to Shoppach's 4.16, 4.37, 4.84). To evaluate where the gains come from, I think it's most helpful to looks at L/R OPS splits. Varitek: '09: vsL: vsL: .914; vsR: .753 3-year: vsL: .777; vsR: .710 Martinez: '09: vsL: .809; vsR: .842 3-year: vsL: .827; vsR: .840 Lowell: '09: vsL: .951; vsR: 761 3-year: vsL: .812; vsR: 842 Ortiz: '09: vsL: .771; vsR: 740 3-year: vsL: .885; vsR: 1.066 Youkilis: '09: vsL: 1.063; vsR: 913 3-year: vsL: .854; vsR: 874 Baldelli: '09: vsL: .817; vsR: 573 3-year: vsL: .822; vsR: .800 Laroche: '09: vsL: .643; vsR: .830 3-year: vsL: .790; vsR: .872 Kotchman: '09: vsL: .660; vsR: .808 3-year: vsL: .785; vsR: 751 Gains vs LHP: None? An argument could be made that there would be a gain replacing Lowell or Tek with Martinez, but since I don't think it will happen, I don't think there's any gain there. Unless Lowell and Tek will be benched entirely, it makes sense to play them vs lefties. This means VMart sits unless he DHs in place of Ortiz, which could be a gain or loss depending on who Papi really is at this point. Regardless of whether it's a gain or loss, it appears the same gain/loss could have been achieved by platooning Ortiz with Baldelli. Gains vs RHP: Ortiz and Youks should play, so the gains to be had here are by replacing either Lowell (largely because of his defensive problems this year) or Varitek. Against RHP, Laroche has similar offensive numbers and is probably a similar defensive 1Bman, so I think the gains of Martinez over Laroche against RHP is small. Most of the gains from the trade, therefore, come from Martinez replacing Tek against RHP. I would guess this happens about 3 times per week if they DFA Kottaras, and 2 times per week if Kottaras stays. Overall, then, I see the primary gains as 100 to 150 OPS points at one position 2-3 times per week, plus some very nice injury protection depth, plus additional ability to keep Tek fresh. We gave up some real value, but nothing extreme. Looks like a B trade to me. |
||||
|
|
||||
mushbone |
#18 | |||
|
I voted "B" only because anytime you trade away good talent there's a chance it could come back to bite you, but I love this move. After all the
rumors about the size of Shapiro's demands, I thought the price would be much higher.
I love the borscht -- Beau Vaughan
|
||||
|
|
||||
Norm in Oregon |
#19 | |||
|
The biggest joker in this deck is Lowell and his lack of mobility to his left. With Youkilis at third, we at least have a decent left side, and with Lowrie
playing short better than that. Given the difference between Varitek from the left side (.760 OPS) and Martinez (.843) there should be some sort of platoon but
there may not be, and that's too bad. +.80 OPS is significant but may not make it into the manager's calculations. That means that Martinez plays a bit
more first base and, as mentioned above, he's not quite as valuable at that position. So I gave this a B.
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. ~ Frederick Douglass
|
||||
|
|
||||
tdrowe |
#20 | |||
|
I give it a B. It's pretty close to being an A or a B in my book. It's seems to be a really fair trade for both sides. The Sox need something to
jumpstart their offense, and I think they acquired a needed piece with Martinez. He will also keep a number of players more fresh for the stretch run (Tek,
Lowell, Youkilis, and maybe Papi). I was also a big Masterson fan (who thinks he can be a solid starter), a HUGE Bryan Price fan (I think he will excel in the
bullpen), and obviously Hagadone is a top-notch prospect. In the bigger picture, as some have mentioned, this barely dented our farm system which shows that
Theo is properly utilizing the talent that has been drafted and developed by this team. We are aggressively incorporating top prospects into our regular Major
League team and not hesitant to make a deal from a position of strength when necessary.
Hopefully, Martinez fulfills the expectations of himself for the next 1.5 years. I suppose it's always possible he falls off a cliff or doesn't play well in Boston. I think he will be an impact player, though. |
||||
|
|
||||