Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (jspearlj1) — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 07:40:18 PST

I keep hearing that Victor is not that much of an improvement offensively over Tek, and its based off of a couple of hot months. It seems reasonable to assume that his past few months are more in line with his actual hitting ability (750 OPS with good OBP) rather than his crazy fluky HR barrage from April/May. If you look at it that way then Victor (in Fenway) will give you about a 70-100 OPS improvement while not really sacrificing much (maybe nothig at all even) in terms of defense. Sure, that's not the marlins going from Bonnaficio to Johnson (improving 200 OPS points) but when you add in the lineup and defensive flexibility to go along with the safety net from injury (which is VERY valuable when you look at this team's construction), not to mention solving the catcher problem for next year and relegating Tek to more back up catching, then I think you have a pretty good improvement.

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (LondonSox) — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 10:03:37 PST

B
I think it's an excellent pickup at the price. Masterson is worth more away than for the Sox, his value is unlikely to get higher without starting regularly, I love the kid but I think it's a good move for him too. Hags is a talent but he's not young, only just getting back from TJ and anyone who throws as hard as him with that history is a question mark. I think he's actually worth more to the Sox, because they can gamble on him turning into an elite arm without hurting them, I'm surprised the Indians are gamblng.
He's going to have to burn options early I assume due to his age too (although I could be wrong here- as TJ may delay rule V? Not 100% sure)
Price is ok, but there are 5-6 other guys like him in the system. He'd have to utterly stun to ever be in the mix for a Sox starter, and as a potenital bullpen arm, can't get upset about that.

V-Mart is good and cheap and controlled next year, just like Bay. They can keep...

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (DonCaballero) — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 00:39:24 PST

gator39 wrote:
I don't understand why everyone keeps dumping on Lowell so much. I understand he doesn't have much range anymore, but he is still hitting.300. And has been on fire since coming off the DL.

I'm pretty sure I can field a better 3B than him.

I'm kidding, but the dude SUCKS with the glove right now.

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (gator39) — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:17:49 PST

I don't understand why everyone keeps dumping on Lowell so much. I understand he doesn't have much range anymore, but he is still hitting.300. And has been on fire since coming off the DL.

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (DonCaballero) — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 15:21:08 PST

A. It means less PT for both Tek's and Lowell's rotting corpses. For that reason alone, it was a great trade.

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (costpet) — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 09:41:34 PST

The Cleveland Plain Dealer took a poll and virturally every Indian fan hated it. They wanted to hang their GM and Owner for doing it. I guess that's good for us and says something about Theo. Then there's the problem of thousands of Martinez Bobblehead dolls ready to be handed out. What do you do with all of them? Jim Bouton had a great line in his book "Ball Four". If you're going to have a plane crash on a Cleveland flight, just hope it's the inbound one.

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (jspearlj1) — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 08:36:19 PST

I voted a B, but I'm pretty close to a C. It's a good deal for this year, but better for next. Masterson's value to this club against tough RHH in the playoffs would have really come in handy, but his highest value was to someone who would start him. Also, Lefties who throw mid 90's with killer offspeed pitches don't usually grow on trees... maybe in Washington state they do. It's a fair deal for both sides, a true win-win. V-Mart's probably not going to be starting at Catcher too much so we'll likely see a bit more out of the bat, also let's not forget that Progressive field is a shade towards a pitchers park so his numbers should see a little uptick as well. An 850 OPS seems reasonable, and that out of someone who covers any and all bases if injuries were to hit is pretty good for the stretch run and great for next year since Tek's "resurgence" with the bat seems to be an early season mirage.

Like greek said,...

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (TheGoldenGreek33) — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 21:57:08 PST

GuapoGuapo wrote:
I love Masterson and I think he can be a good, durable starter, league average or better, which is very valuable.

Great point, and an oft-overlooked point. Middle of the rotation starters make about $10-12MM in this market. Hagadone will at least be a quality middle reliever, which would be incredibly valuable considering he'd be making league minimum at least for the first three years. I don't know, I'm not in love with Vic's bat, and I think a lot of people are overlooking how much value we really did give up for him, especially if he is truly in decline. People just look at Masterson and think he's a league average pitcher and those aren't hard to replace. After thinking about it, I'd give this trade a C, maybe even a C-.

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (TheGoldenGreek33) — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 21:14:10 PST

Arquimedez Bozo wrote:
Check the front page right now. He was 10th.

Oops, I checked the June 19th rankings. Still, BA had him 3rd before the season started. Controversial or not, he's a legit prospect and one that definitely stung giving up.

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (GuapoGuapo) — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 20:11:15 PST

I voted Fair Move for a fair trade. I love Masterson and I think he can be a good, durable starter, league average or better, which is very valuable. So I don't think it was a steal by any means. I guess there's some downside if Martinez' bat is really declining, but all in all a good acquisition at an affordable cost.

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (WC Sox Fan) — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:48:39 PST

ty
I'll try not to cause too many problems (seems I may have already ruffled a few feathers)

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (jsinger121) — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:35:31 PST

Welcome to the site, mp2642 and WC Sox Fan.

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (Jrou8809) — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:33:32 PST

I really liked the move. Masterson was never going to be an impact pitcher for the sox... He wasn't going to crack the rotation and with Bard, Papelbon, Ramirez, and Delcarmen all being fairly young arms in the bullpen he was never going to be utilized as much as he should be. I loved Price until he couldn't really hack it in Salem. The only downside is the potential of Hagadone. if you figure that worst case scenario he's one of the best left handed bullpen arms in baseball, that says a lot about his potential. But when you figure that all in with the fact that Martinez could be a very good stop gap to our catcher of the future before taking over for Ortiz at a switch hitting DH long term it's pretty awesome.

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (WC Sox Fan) — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:17:38 PST

Norm in Oregon wrote:

WC Sox Fan wrote:
Cons:
...
2. He is not a SS (Lowrie has struggled badly so far and Green is an overworked benched player)
...

Lowrie has started exactly seven games since his return on July 18th. He's batted 23 times in those starts and, while he has only 3 hits in those starts, those were all for extra bases, two doubles and a home run. Explain to me how this miniscule sample size constitutes struggling badly.

Lowrie has .122 with a .399 OPS in 41 ML at bats. He's hit .220 with a .630 OPS in 50 minor league at bats. I don't think anyone could dispute that these numbers would be considered "struggling badly". As you mentioned he's only had 7 starts since he's been back, but what does that tell you about the...

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (norbit14) — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:49:01 PST

Great move I love it. We get an addition at multiple positions of need without losing any big piece of this team, this year. We didn't mortgage the future either.

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (Arquimedez Bozo) — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:47:46 PST

TheGoldenGreek33 wrote:

WC Sox Fan wrote:
Pros:
4. They didn't have to trade a top 9 prospect

Actually, Hags was ranked 7th on here in the latest rankings.

Check the front page right now. He was 10th.

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (Drew ) — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:24:48 PST

I gave it an A. The guys we lost could turn out to be decent major leaguers, but in the context of the sox organization they were all surplus to requirements. Martinez will help a lot this year and will aid Theo in the rebuilding he is going to have to do in the next couple of years.

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (TheGoldenGreek33) — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:00:34 PST

WC Sox Fan wrote:
Pros:
4. They didn't have to trade a top 9 prospect

Actually, Hags was ranked 7th on here in the latest rankings. Nevertheless, he's going to be a reliever when it's all said and done, and those can be acquired easily and cheaply through the trade market.

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (Norm in Oregon) — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 17:52:15 PST

WC Sox Fan wrote:
Cons:
...
2. He is not a SS (Lowrie has struggled badly so far and Green is an overworked benched player)
...

Lowrie has started exactly seven games since his return on July 18th. He's batted 23 times in those starts and, while he has only 3 hits in those starts, those were all for extra bases, two doubles and a home run. Explain to me how this miniscule sample size constitutes struggling badly.

Re: Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (TheGoldenGreek33) — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 17:46:17 PST

CT Sox Fan wrote:
I voted A. I love this move. Not only do we add a bat the caliber of vmart's but we also take Lowell and Varitek out of the lineup as much as possible.

Is taking Lowell out of the line-up necessarily a good thing? I know he's been pretty much useless in the field this year, but he's hit .388 on a 10 game hitting streak since after coming off the DL (SSS, I know). Here's to hoping we see Martinez catching, Youkilis at first, and Lowell at third for the majority of the remainder of the year.

Trade Rater: Martinez Deal

feeds@kickapps.com (soxprospects) — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 09:53:44 PST

While some teams make a splash at the non-waiver trade deadline, the Red Sox just did a cannonball. DJ Bean of WEEI.com, citing multiple media reports, has confirmed that Boston has acquired slugging catcher Victor Martinez from the Cleveland Indians in exchange for pitchers Justin Masterson, Nick Hagadone, and Bryan Price. The 30-year-old Martinez is hitting .284/.368/.464 with 21 doubles, 15 home runs and 67 RBI in 377 at-bats so far this season,...